Sweetwater called me. Now the VC-2 card is scheduled for April 28.
Why do I have the feeling we won't see Ver. 2.0 for a while either?
Buying New VC -2 card?
Re: Buying New VC -2 card?
Very curious to know your first experience esbium. Tell us all about it. This contact of yours, does he handle other requests as well 
? I would like to have the card asap. Maybe I just have to be patient.
? I would like to have the card asap. Maybe I just have to be patient.-
realtrance
- Posts: 128
- Joined: 16:39, 8 April 2005
Re: Buying New VC -2 card?
One thing to note about the VC-2 is that though it is primarily sold as a vocoder/choir modeller, think of it as a set of specialist tools provided to work with formants.
Formants (apologies to those of you who already know this) are critical components in the character of many sounds, instrumental as well as vocal. They provide the foundation for the basic timbre of an instrument, along with the nature of the attack phase of a sound.
From what I can see, it looks like the VC-2 will be interesting for lots of experimentation with formants, whether vocal or otherwise. Any kind of sound you can introduce into the instrument, whether live or via sample, can be sculpted and mangled in real-time, and the real-time variation in formant structure is what gives a lot of "natural" instruments their lively character, and is what makes the human voice the liveliest instrument of all.
So... I'm going to think of the VC-2 as my super formant synth tool. I wonder how it will work with input from my FS1R.....
Formants (apologies to those of you who already know this) are critical components in the character of many sounds, instrumental as well as vocal. They provide the foundation for the basic timbre of an instrument, along with the nature of the attack phase of a sound.
From what I can see, it looks like the VC-2 will be interesting for lots of experimentation with formants, whether vocal or otherwise. Any kind of sound you can introduce into the instrument, whether live or via sample, can be sculpted and mangled in real-time, and the real-time variation in formant structure is what gives a lot of "natural" instruments their lively character, and is what makes the human voice the liveliest instrument of all.
So... I'm going to think of the VC-2 as my super formant synth tool. I wonder how it will work with input from my FS1R.....
Re: Buying New VC -2 card?
I will let you know how it goes! I wish I could share this roland contact with everyone but..... I cannot.. dont want to get h/h in trouble.
-
groovecake
- Posts: 40
- Joined: 23:21, 16 February 2005
Re: Buying New VC -2 card?
Any word on WHEN this is coming out???
Re: Buying New VC -2 card?
mine is ordered and is on back order for a week
ahh to tame this amazing beast of a synth!!!
ahh to tame this amazing beast of a synth!!!
-
realtrance
- Posts: 128
- Joined: 16:39, 8 April 2005
Re: Buying New VC -2 card?
Got mine, and.... it is just incredible. I have to clarify that I'm not using it specifically for processing vocal mic input, which is what it's being marketed for, but instead am using it as a tone/timbre shaper for other synths I'm inputting into the V-Synth.
As one example, I'm using a Roland SH-32 (which I picked up new, btw, years ago, recognizing it as the little powerhouse it is) to play around with the VC-2 for starters.
There's one, really weedy sync default factory sound, patch C12, which I like and tweak a lot to turn into all sorts of things (on the SH-32 when you put the oscs on sync it turns off the built-in filter, making the sound all the more harsh).
Well, input that into the R input on the V-Synth (switched to Line, not Mic of course), take Patch 3 on the VC-2 -- VC330 -- change the Effect to the Roland vintage Space Echo emulation, turn on Growl on the Carrier wave and throw in Osc2/Square in the Carrier with sub-osc set to -1, volume 58 and detune 3-4, play with the compressor 1 setting on the Mic input (make the attack shorter, the release longer, EQ the sound with say +1 around 800 and -1 around 6300 to for emphasis and sweetening), and..... jeezus, I could have played the results all night last night!
If you're using the VC-2 this way, you really have to think in terms of simple melodic lines accompanied at most with one or two other notes on the keyboard, classic vocoder-style, so that you're real-time influencing the harmonics of the primary melodic line with the other notes' harmonic contributions as you trigger them on or off. It makes for a really beautiful, rhythmic, compelling sound, great for any lead line in a composition.
And that's a pretty minimalist example above. Shoot for something really lush with the choir modelling patches and tweak the hell out of the sound both on your synth and then through the VC-2 and you'll get really striking, original, musical results.
Damn I have to stop now -- back to my VC-2!!! Literally brings tears to my eyes when I'm playing, it's so gorgeous.
Oh -- one other thing though -- play with Growl and some of the Roland guitar-amp emulations on the VC-2 and input something that's really full of a lot of inharmonic sound (raspy saw, noise-filled synth voices) and you'll get cutting, searing results as intense and angry as the above combination is beautiful!! You can then use the formant control to really emphasize the frequency range you want in this kind of lead sound to really mix it in well either with the rest of your band or the rest of your track. It gives you just amazing control over where you want to place your voice (from whatever source you take it) in the mix!
Wow, now I really gotta stop. Bye!
As one example, I'm using a Roland SH-32 (which I picked up new, btw, years ago, recognizing it as the little powerhouse it is) to play around with the VC-2 for starters.
There's one, really weedy sync default factory sound, patch C12, which I like and tweak a lot to turn into all sorts of things (on the SH-32 when you put the oscs on sync it turns off the built-in filter, making the sound all the more harsh).
Well, input that into the R input on the V-Synth (switched to Line, not Mic of course), take Patch 3 on the VC-2 -- VC330 -- change the Effect to the Roland vintage Space Echo emulation, turn on Growl on the Carrier wave and throw in Osc2/Square in the Carrier with sub-osc set to -1, volume 58 and detune 3-4, play with the compressor 1 setting on the Mic input (make the attack shorter, the release longer, EQ the sound with say +1 around 800 and -1 around 6300 to for emphasis and sweetening), and..... jeezus, I could have played the results all night last night!
If you're using the VC-2 this way, you really have to think in terms of simple melodic lines accompanied at most with one or two other notes on the keyboard, classic vocoder-style, so that you're real-time influencing the harmonics of the primary melodic line with the other notes' harmonic contributions as you trigger them on or off. It makes for a really beautiful, rhythmic, compelling sound, great for any lead line in a composition.
And that's a pretty minimalist example above. Shoot for something really lush with the choir modelling patches and tweak the hell out of the sound both on your synth and then through the VC-2 and you'll get really striking, original, musical results.
Damn I have to stop now -- back to my VC-2!!! Literally brings tears to my eyes when I'm playing, it's so gorgeous.
Oh -- one other thing though -- play with Growl and some of the Roland guitar-amp emulations on the VC-2 and input something that's really full of a lot of inharmonic sound (raspy saw, noise-filled synth voices) and you'll get cutting, searing results as intense and angry as the above combination is beautiful!! You can then use the formant control to really emphasize the frequency range you want in this kind of lead sound to really mix it in well either with the rest of your band or the rest of your track. It gives you just amazing control over where you want to place your voice (from whatever source you take it) in the mix!
Wow, now I really gotta stop. Bye!
-
kreakleuter
- Posts: 30
- Joined: 21:52, 18 March 2005
Re: Buying New VC -2 card?
So, realtrance and those who have the vc-2 already, can you comment on its pitch-tracking capabilities? Is it accurate, quick etc., and does it send out midi so you can control other equipment with this feature?
-
realtrance
- Posts: 128
- Joined: 16:39, 8 April 2005
Re: Buying New VC -2 card?
Hi kreakleuter,
Can you be a little more specific in your question about pitch-tracking? The VC-2 has modeling algorithms -- solo voice or choir voice, male and female -- which do a great job of providing a very natural-sounding vocal, including pitch and formant shifting (so you can change -- of course within limits -- male to female voice and vice versa, the musical key the vocal performance is in, size of choir, style of choir voice). Then it also has a polyphonic pitch-shifter, which to my ear at least is far more natural and musical than most I've used.
Of course, with any pitch-shifting or vocoding, you're going to have to have different settings for different kinds of inputs. The vocoder seems to do a great job of taking various kinds of noisy sounds (percussive or sync/saw input sounds) and transforming them without creating a lot of artefacts (unless you want to), but you have to think about what you're doing here, obviously vocoding is a technique that by definition will introduce distortion into the sound (this is what I got it for, though!). The kind of distortion you can introduce I find highly interesting to my ear. It produces a very lively sound.
Finally, you can use two algorithms to process external sounds, yes, so that you use the Mic input say for your microphone (or one synth/instrument), and the other input for the sound to be processed. Using the VC-2 this way, the keyboard does not come into play -- you're using the V-Synth as an external sound processor at this point (the R input is used for Mic/Lin input, the L input is used only as Line input for external instrument to be processed).
This is different from what, say, the JP-8080 can do with its ability to turn vocal input into MIDI messages which are then output via MIDI... and there's nothing in the manual indicating you can use the MIDI on the V-Synth this way, but I haven't played around with that kind of hookup yet. I'm happy to hear otherwise from someone more "in the know."
Best,
rt
Can you be a little more specific in your question about pitch-tracking? The VC-2 has modeling algorithms -- solo voice or choir voice, male and female -- which do a great job of providing a very natural-sounding vocal, including pitch and formant shifting (so you can change -- of course within limits -- male to female voice and vice versa, the musical key the vocal performance is in, size of choir, style of choir voice). Then it also has a polyphonic pitch-shifter, which to my ear at least is far more natural and musical than most I've used.
Of course, with any pitch-shifting or vocoding, you're going to have to have different settings for different kinds of inputs. The vocoder seems to do a great job of taking various kinds of noisy sounds (percussive or sync/saw input sounds) and transforming them without creating a lot of artefacts (unless you want to), but you have to think about what you're doing here, obviously vocoding is a technique that by definition will introduce distortion into the sound (this is what I got it for, though!). The kind of distortion you can introduce I find highly interesting to my ear. It produces a very lively sound.
Finally, you can use two algorithms to process external sounds, yes, so that you use the Mic input say for your microphone (or one synth/instrument), and the other input for the sound to be processed. Using the VC-2 this way, the keyboard does not come into play -- you're using the V-Synth as an external sound processor at this point (the R input is used for Mic/Lin input, the L input is used only as Line input for external instrument to be processed).
This is different from what, say, the JP-8080 can do with its ability to turn vocal input into MIDI messages which are then output via MIDI... and there's nothing in the manual indicating you can use the MIDI on the V-Synth this way, but I haven't played around with that kind of hookup yet. I'm happy to hear otherwise from someone more "in the know."
Best,
rt
-
kreakleuter
- Posts: 30
- Joined: 21:52, 18 March 2005
Re: Buying New VC -2 card?
Hi, realtrance, thanks for your reply but what I mean is indeed a pitch tracking ability as in the Fairlight voicetracker, the roland vp-70 or like you said the jp-8080. Where a voice e.g. is put in, and its pitch and other characteristics are detected and converted into midi-signals.
This feature is mentioned although briefly at Roland's VC-2 website and in the manual.
On the vc-2 dedicated website (http://www.roland.com/products/en/VC-2/features.html) it says (under details):
"The VC-2▓s Poly-Voice Keyboard mode allows vocal sounds to be played without audio input, or you can do the opposite with the VC-2▓s voice-to-synth converter, which contains an advanced pitch-detection algorithm that enables the modeled vocal sound to follow the pitch of your voice in real time ≈ no keyboard playing required."
Going through the downloadable owner's manual it mentions the Auto Note function,which can be found in the vocoder screen, which detects the pitch of the mic to play the vc-2 .
Maybe you can try it out for me and check if this is also transmitted via midi, going through its midi-implementation chart it looks as if it can.
I hope you or anyone else can enlighten me on this, thanks and enjoy!
V
This feature is mentioned although briefly at Roland's VC-2 website and in the manual.
On the vc-2 dedicated website (http://www.roland.com/products/en/VC-2/features.html) it says (under details):
"The VC-2▓s Poly-Voice Keyboard mode allows vocal sounds to be played without audio input, or you can do the opposite with the VC-2▓s voice-to-synth converter, which contains an advanced pitch-detection algorithm that enables the modeled vocal sound to follow the pitch of your voice in real time ≈ no keyboard playing required."
Going through the downloadable owner's manual it mentions the Auto Note function,which can be found in the vocoder screen, which detects the pitch of the mic to play the vc-2 .
Maybe you can try it out for me and check if this is also transmitted via midi, going through its midi-implementation chart it looks as if it can.
I hope you or anyone else can enlighten me on this, thanks and enjoy!
V
Re: Buying New VC -2 card?
After reading this thread I went and ordered a VC-2 last night. Thanks realtrance!!
I can't wait to screw up Kate's (see "Show your music" discussion) vocals on a coople of tracks we have.
-grimley
I can't wait to screw up Kate's (see "Show your music" discussion) vocals on a coople of tracks we have.
-grimley
Re: Buying New VC -2 card?
How much is this card? Can someone post a link to a store that sells it (preferably in Europe)?
Re: Buying New VC -2 card?
sound samples!! pleas!
-
realtrance
- Posts: 128
- Joined: 16:39, 8 April 2005
Re: Buying New VC -2 card?
Hi Kreakleuter,
I finally realized what you're asking about re: using the Mic input on the VC-2 to send MIDI messages out to another instrument via the V-Synth's MIDI out.
Yes, this is definitely possible, and produces some cool results. It turns out it works much the same way this feature works on the JP-8080. There are a wide number of modulation destinations you can control with any MIDI CC controller, and "Breath" is the CC Controller you can choose to take the Mic input and use that as your MIDI controller for these modulation destinations. The manual outlines all the destinations that can be assigned CC Controllers.
Once you turn Autonote Swtch On, then yes, your primary controller becomes your mic input, and it will control pitch along with all of the modulation destinations you've assigned it to. Without Autonote Switch On, the Mic can still be used to essentially control the depth of the modulation for all the destinations linked up to the Breath CC Controller.
Is that closer to answering your question? I can list all the destinations Breath can be assigned to, if that would be useful for anyone who can't access the manual online (it's not yet on the USA site but is available, I believe, on the Roland European sites).
Best,
rt
I finally realized what you're asking about re: using the Mic input on the VC-2 to send MIDI messages out to another instrument via the V-Synth's MIDI out.
Yes, this is definitely possible, and produces some cool results. It turns out it works much the same way this feature works on the JP-8080. There are a wide number of modulation destinations you can control with any MIDI CC controller, and "Breath" is the CC Controller you can choose to take the Mic input and use that as your MIDI controller for these modulation destinations. The manual outlines all the destinations that can be assigned CC Controllers.
Once you turn Autonote Swtch On, then yes, your primary controller becomes your mic input, and it will control pitch along with all of the modulation destinations you've assigned it to. Without Autonote Switch On, the Mic can still be used to essentially control the depth of the modulation for all the destinations linked up to the Breath CC Controller.
Is that closer to answering your question? I can list all the destinations Breath can be assigned to, if that would be useful for anyone who can't access the manual online (it's not yet on the USA site but is available, I believe, on the Roland European sites).
Best,
rt