"The Fantom is a toy. The Motif is an instrument"
I got a dilemma,
I've been in love with the fantom since it's first debut,when the triton was the hottest commodity and the motif wasn't even in existance.....
anyways Im going from vsts [hypersonic,sampletank,proteus soundfonts].... to a keyboard workstation.....
Im curious if any of you guys could give me a un-biased sound comparison of these two workstations....
the top qoute was snatched from a thread at motifator....
Im planning to sequence with a Akai MPC
so it's all about sounds....nothing else,all other features mean nothing at this moment.
I wanted to get a Fantom S first and a motif rack but reading these biased user reviews leaves me confused...
i've been down to guitar center plenty of times to try out all 3 of the big 3 but Im not able to demo each sound side by side because the store is always so busy.....
Im just curious to how the sounds stand up against each other .....and why the hell would someone say "The Fantom is a toy. The Motif is an instrument "??????
thank you
Fantom users Who also have/used a Motif
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sevencornergang
- Posts: 49
- Joined: 06:39, 7 November 2004
Re: Fantom users Who also have/used a Motif
As with any instrument, if you tweak it the right way you can usually get the sound your lookin for. I own a Fantom S, my folks own the motif. We did it this way so if by request someone wanted to use the motif, fantom or triton we had one.
My opinion is Fantom has the sickest bass, synth bass, & moog sounds, Drum kicks are usable by them selves, but if you mix them together (stack kicks) you can get some hard hittin slaps. All other instruments have the world famous Roland sound. Down side is being able to aply effects to each individual track (this can be worked around though)
Motif to me has good sounds, the basses are upthere but not as hard as the Fantom or Triton (fresh out the box, no editing). The kicks are a little lite but the same go's, stack'em up & there you go. All other instruments are above par. I say this because most of them are preset with reverbs, chorus and things. I like mine plain, to where I can add or not add the effects.
All in all I give the Fantom 1st Place in this race, and place the Motif 2nd, Triton I had one stopped using it once I get the Fantom, dumped it off to my Cutin but I still have access to it when I need it.
My opinion is Fantom has the sickest bass, synth bass, & moog sounds, Drum kicks are usable by them selves, but if you mix them together (stack kicks) you can get some hard hittin slaps. All other instruments have the world famous Roland sound. Down side is being able to aply effects to each individual track (this can be worked around though)
Motif to me has good sounds, the basses are upthere but not as hard as the Fantom or Triton (fresh out the box, no editing). The kicks are a little lite but the same go's, stack'em up & there you go. All other instruments are above par. I say this because most of them are preset with reverbs, chorus and things. I like mine plain, to where I can add or not add the effects.
All in all I give the Fantom 1st Place in this race, and place the Motif 2nd, Triton I had one stopped using it once I get the Fantom, dumped it off to my Cutin but I still have access to it when I need it.
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sevencornergang
- Posts: 49
- Joined: 06:39, 7 November 2004
Re: Fantom users Who also have/used a Motif
so is it your opinion that the motif preset sounds only "seem" to sound so good is because they are preset with reverbs, chorus and things?
besides the bass and drums how does everything else compare?
Everyone says in synth sounds and basses the Fantom exceeds the competition.....
but concerning the other sounds I cannot get a Unbiased opinion.
besides the bass and drums how does everything else compare?
Everyone says in synth sounds and basses the Fantom exceeds the competition.....
but concerning the other sounds I cannot get a Unbiased opinion.
Re: Fantom users Who also have/used a Motif
It will probably be tough to get an unbiased opinion. Your opinion is the one that really matters, since you'll be spending your money. Most of the opinions that you'll see on these forums (on any major purchase probably), are biased in the sense that most of us that get a positive use out of a product will reinforce our own decision to spend the money by inculcating the positives and learning to work around the shortcomings, while still plainly delineating the shortcomings of the stuff we didn't buy. I know that's a mouthful, but I think that it is a false premise to ask for an unbiased opinion, but rather ask for opinions under your frame of reference, and then evaluating those opinions based on your own filters....tone, syntax, etc.
I believe that the poster who you quoted regarding toy vs. instrument illustrated that bias to a high degree. It is not a logical conclusion, but still highly arguable, depending on your frame of reference. But because of that highly suspect statement, I would tend to toss that opinion out the window and be done with it. I personally had use of a Motif ES8 for two months over the spring of this year. Fantastic sounding instrument. But it stumped me on a routine basis as far as usability. Some people have different opinions, but I'm not a manual reader...I like to dive into the pool first. Just as heavy as the Fantom S88, but harder to carry by myself due its back panel shape. I used it in a show (Godspell) along with my S88, and they complemented each other nicely. I still prefer the Roland action by a small margin, and the Yamaha guitar strums/arpeggios are astounding. But I'm a live player, a hard core keyboard player. 85% of my gigs have a guitarist, and the ones that don't usually don't need one.
So I can't give you an unbiased opinion. I've been playing Roland romplers for 11 years now, and they've been bulletproof for me, always ready to do my bidding. I'm 47 now and getting more gig calls than I ever have, so I must be doing something right.
So I'm 100% sure that I made the right choice on the day that I made it. If I had perfect hindsight and a crystal ball, I would have waited for the X8. But since I am mortal and fallible, no dice on that one.
Any of these instruments are toys in the hands of neophytes, and awesome tools in the hands of someone ready to put in the work required. Just like a fine tool in any craft.
I believe that the poster who you quoted regarding toy vs. instrument illustrated that bias to a high degree. It is not a logical conclusion, but still highly arguable, depending on your frame of reference. But because of that highly suspect statement, I would tend to toss that opinion out the window and be done with it. I personally had use of a Motif ES8 for two months over the spring of this year. Fantastic sounding instrument. But it stumped me on a routine basis as far as usability. Some people have different opinions, but I'm not a manual reader...I like to dive into the pool first. Just as heavy as the Fantom S88, but harder to carry by myself due its back panel shape. I used it in a show (Godspell) along with my S88, and they complemented each other nicely. I still prefer the Roland action by a small margin, and the Yamaha guitar strums/arpeggios are astounding. But I'm a live player, a hard core keyboard player. 85% of my gigs have a guitarist, and the ones that don't usually don't need one.
So I can't give you an unbiased opinion. I've been playing Roland romplers for 11 years now, and they've been bulletproof for me, always ready to do my bidding. I'm 47 now and getting more gig calls than I ever have, so I must be doing something right.
So I'm 100% sure that I made the right choice on the day that I made it. If I had perfect hindsight and a crystal ball, I would have waited for the X8. But since I am mortal and fallible, no dice on that one.
Any of these instruments are toys in the hands of neophytes, and awesome tools in the hands of someone ready to put in the work required. Just like a fine tool in any craft.
Re: Fantom users Who also have/used a Motif
There are much more better preset sounds in the Motif-ES than Fantom-X but the interface sucks big time and this is where the Roland shines.
Midi East Music
Midi East Music
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sevencornergang
- Posts: 49
- Joined: 06:39, 7 November 2004
Re: Fantom users Who also have/used a Motif
i guess mucsusn
that is the truth.....
maybe im just trying to conivnce myself one last time on the fantom.....
i like the guitars on the motif as well,thats why i wanted the rack.
i guess i just don't want to buy the fantom and end up saying hey i had these same sounds using ravity,hypersonic,and sampletank [vsts]
and be pissed i bought it,and then someone turn around and tell me i should have got the motif......
if my pockets had a little more money,i could skip the posting and just grab the fantom S and the motif rack now......
and stop arguing with myself and just start creating music
thanks for the response though .....
it just reminded me "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder."
that is the truth.....
maybe im just trying to conivnce myself one last time on the fantom.....
i like the guitars on the motif as well,thats why i wanted the rack.
i guess i just don't want to buy the fantom and end up saying hey i had these same sounds using ravity,hypersonic,and sampletank [vsts]
and be pissed i bought it,and then someone turn around and tell me i should have got the motif......
if my pockets had a little more money,i could skip the posting and just grab the fantom S and the motif rack now......
and stop arguing with myself and just start creating music
thanks for the response though .....
it just reminded me "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder."
Re: Fantom users Who also have/used a Motif
I recently got my Fantom S
I did a lot research before even going and try the keyboards.
I read many different forums and people who owned these units for a while. Not everyone agrees. Some say the Fantom has the best sounds overall some say the Motif is the most expressive best sounding workstation out there.
But I made an average see what came up most in both.
What came up often:
Sounds
Fantom: best bread and butter sounds overall great quality
Yamaha: Most expressive synth very cool sounding.
Fantom: Commercial sounding.
Motif: Emotional keyboard
Ease of use:
Motif: complex and non-intuitive. Small screen hard to use sequencer. Slow sampler.
Roland: Opposite, a great musical composition tool. Aswesome sequencer and quick sampler and big screen.
Features:
Motif: more powerful, more effects. Plug in boards are cool.
Roland: not enough effects, low polyphony (FA76 and S)
SRX expansion is a big plus.
looks:
Roland fantom wins easy.
Overall:
I see more positive about the Fantom in the composition department. More positive about the Motif in the sound department. Personally after trying both I thought the reviews I got were accurate.
But the main reason I got this Fantom was the ease of use. When I'm inspired I don't want to get frustrated trying to read a small screen and getting it sequence. I want things to flow.
when I got my Korg N1R I thought back then it had the most awesome pads and overall nice warm and thick sounds. I found most of these were not easy to use in a mix. And not only that but the cryptic tiny screen and bad interface made finding a sound really complicated. I barely used the unit because of this.
I did a lot research before even going and try the keyboards.
I read many different forums and people who owned these units for a while. Not everyone agrees. Some say the Fantom has the best sounds overall some say the Motif is the most expressive best sounding workstation out there.
But I made an average see what came up most in both.
What came up often:
Sounds
Fantom: best bread and butter sounds overall great quality
Yamaha: Most expressive synth very cool sounding.
Fantom: Commercial sounding.
Motif: Emotional keyboard
Ease of use:
Motif: complex and non-intuitive. Small screen hard to use sequencer. Slow sampler.
Roland: Opposite, a great musical composition tool. Aswesome sequencer and quick sampler and big screen.
Features:
Motif: more powerful, more effects. Plug in boards are cool.
Roland: not enough effects, low polyphony (FA76 and S)
SRX expansion is a big plus.
looks:
Roland fantom wins easy.
Overall:
I see more positive about the Fantom in the composition department. More positive about the Motif in the sound department. Personally after trying both I thought the reviews I got were accurate.
But the main reason I got this Fantom was the ease of use. When I'm inspired I don't want to get frustrated trying to read a small screen and getting it sequence. I want things to flow.
when I got my Korg N1R I thought back then it had the most awesome pads and overall nice warm and thick sounds. I found most of these were not easy to use in a mix. And not only that but the cryptic tiny screen and bad interface made finding a sound really complicated. I barely used the unit because of this.
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The-Shadow
- Posts: 50
- Joined: 06:47, 29 November 2003
- Location: Toronto, ON
Re: Fantom users Who also have/used a Motif
Not a fan of the Motif. The only thing I liked was the Power Grand patch. I wasn't feeling the sequencers or the menus. I find that the Fantom is far superior in terms of programming. Besides, it looks better too.
The Motif looks like a Volvo, boxy.
The Shadow
One of Three
The Special Projects Division
---------------------------------
UNDISCLOSED LOCATION
Toronto, ON Canada
The Motif looks like a Volvo, boxy.
The Shadow
One of Three
The Special Projects Division
---------------------------------
UNDISCLOSED LOCATION
Toronto, ON Canada
Re: Fantom users Who also have/used a Motif
"The Fantom is a toy. The Motif is an instrument"
This sort of comment is soooooo stupid and reflect a very limited judgment.
I remember the first time I tried the Motif 6, I was kind of excited after reading so many praises, even the seller said ''this is the machine''.
Wow what a letdown I felt, my reaction was : great acoustic piano but the synth stuff and the usual Yami UI just didn't cut it for me. I found the sound very ''Yamahaish'' and a logic step in the evolution of the brand. And that is exactly the thing that I dislike the most in the Motif, the metalic/sharp/bellish/cold Yamaha's sound caracteristic.
It reminded me the foundation of their sound signature : the classic DX7 (wich I never liked).
When I tried the Fantom-S it was a relief, and a big ''haaaaaaaaaa the Roland sounds'' (even better)
However I perfectly understand that some people love it and Yamaha certainly have a sound of there own even in a so called rompler.
So you see sound is a very debatable point.
Where the Motif shines IMO is the MFX, Arp, some acoustic sounds, and plug-in options.
But Roland shine in the synth engine design, synth sounds, COSM effects, sequencer, UI/screen, sampling.
To each is own, you have to choose between 2 great workstation. Choose the one who shine in the most important aspects of a synth for you, and has limits that you can live with.
This sort of comment is soooooo stupid and reflect a very limited judgment.
I remember the first time I tried the Motif 6, I was kind of excited after reading so many praises, even the seller said ''this is the machine''.
Wow what a letdown I felt, my reaction was : great acoustic piano but the synth stuff and the usual Yami UI just didn't cut it for me. I found the sound very ''Yamahaish'' and a logic step in the evolution of the brand. And that is exactly the thing that I dislike the most in the Motif, the metalic/sharp/bellish/cold Yamaha's sound caracteristic.
It reminded me the foundation of their sound signature : the classic DX7 (wich I never liked).
When I tried the Fantom-S it was a relief, and a big ''haaaaaaaaaa the Roland sounds'' (even better)
However I perfectly understand that some people love it and Yamaha certainly have a sound of there own even in a so called rompler.
So you see sound is a very debatable point.
Where the Motif shines IMO is the MFX, Arp, some acoustic sounds, and plug-in options.
But Roland shine in the synth engine design, synth sounds, COSM effects, sequencer, UI/screen, sampling.
To each is own, you have to choose between 2 great workstation. Choose the one who shine in the most important aspects of a synth for you, and has limits that you can live with.
Re: Fantom users Who also have/used a Motif
"Im planning to sequence with a Akai MPC
so it's all about sounds....nothing else,all other features mean nothing at this moment."
With that statement in mind, I would suggest the Motif Rack, because it can be bought these days for about $850 to $900 at Guitar Ctr. I have the Rack and I use it with the Fantom X7 being the sequencer. You probably don't need the sampling features of the Xr because you have the MPC.
so it's all about sounds....nothing else,all other features mean nothing at this moment."
With that statement in mind, I would suggest the Motif Rack, because it can be bought these days for about $850 to $900 at Guitar Ctr. I have the Rack and I use it with the Fantom X7 being the sequencer. You probably don't need the sampling features of the Xr because you have the MPC.
Re: Fantom users Who also have/used a Motif
As has already been mentioned, the statement about the Fantom being a toy is pretty much a worthless statement and it doesn't tell you a thing. The difference in sound quality of the major sample based synths is more subtle than most will admit. They all sound very nice and each has areas where they seem to sound a little better (and even that is pretty subjective)than the others.
I personally like the Fantom because to me it sounds more realistic (on most, not all ) of the acoustic sounds and it has much greater potential for creating new and unique sounds. It also excels at electronic sounds. You don't have to worry that the Fantom is a toy.
I personally like the Fantom because to me it sounds more realistic (on most, not all ) of the acoustic sounds and it has much greater potential for creating new and unique sounds. It also excels at electronic sounds. You don't have to worry that the Fantom is a toy.
Re: Fantom users Who also have/used a Motif
The Fantom XR rack was a great deal here in Canada.
Priced at 1450$ canadian. Vs 1900$ for the Motif Rack
and 2100 for the FS 61 keys
Priced at 1450$ canadian. Vs 1900$ for the Motif Rack
and 2100 for the FS 61 keys
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sevencornergang
- Posts: 49
- Joined: 06:39, 7 November 2004
Re: Fantom users Who also have/used a Motif
then with most of that said i think I would be well off stickin to me original plan of getting the fantom S and expansion cards and later adding a motif rack.....
as long as i surpass the sounds of my vsts[sampletank,hypersonic] I will be happy.
The whole Reason of me getting a keyboard was the sounds of my music just don't sound good like professional quality stuff.....it's ok for icing on the cake but the vsts by themselves to me just can't compare with what im hearing on the radio.....
I do Hip-hop and R&b and sometimes when the mood takes me i do a little bit of both Pop and dance.
My sequences and everything else is up to par ..... it's just the sounds i have ..... IMHO they are garbage.
thank you for all the comments.....
if anybody has both the motif and fantom it would be cool if someone could upload a guitar track from them both so i can get a real comparison right now.....
the reason i said guitar is every motif user raves about how good the acoustic guitar is and how sub-par the fantom is compared.....both if they sound similar....
hell......i may not even need the motif rack,with all the sounds on the SRX boards
as long as i surpass the sounds of my vsts[sampletank,hypersonic] I will be happy.
The whole Reason of me getting a keyboard was the sounds of my music just don't sound good like professional quality stuff.....it's ok for icing on the cake but the vsts by themselves to me just can't compare with what im hearing on the radio.....
I do Hip-hop and R&b and sometimes when the mood takes me i do a little bit of both Pop and dance.
My sequences and everything else is up to par ..... it's just the sounds i have ..... IMHO they are garbage.
thank you for all the comments.....
if anybody has both the motif and fantom it would be cool if someone could upload a guitar track from them both so i can get a real comparison right now.....
the reason i said guitar is every motif user raves about how good the acoustic guitar is and how sub-par the fantom is compared.....both if they sound similar....
hell......i may not even need the motif rack,with all the sounds on the SRX boards
Re: Fantom users Who also have/used a Motif
I'm currently tweaking the Jazz guitar on the Fantom trying to get it to sound like the one in the song slow motion Juvenile. with some limited success. It just doesn't have the same expressiveness. That's why I'm not yet ready to U/L
I got 2 decent samples of the guitar the the song (only 2 places where no other instrument or vocal is playing).
In other words I believe much better guitars can be done with sampling. Especially in the electric/distortion versions. But the acoustics are pretty good on the FS. One guitarist where I work thought I had recorded a steel guitar from a little riff I had him listen too wjith the stereoacoustic patch.
I'll try to get a friend to come over with a good amp and guitar and get him to strike at different velocities and get as much realism as possible out of a patch.
But I forgot how the ES guits sound like, I guess I'll check them out at the store in the near future.
I got 2 decent samples of the guitar the the song (only 2 places where no other instrument or vocal is playing).
In other words I believe much better guitars can be done with sampling. Especially in the electric/distortion versions. But the acoustics are pretty good on the FS. One guitarist where I work thought I had recorded a steel guitar from a little riff I had him listen too wjith the stereoacoustic patch.
I'll try to get a friend to come over with a good amp and guitar and get him to strike at different velocities and get as much realism as possible out of a patch.
But I forgot how the ES guits sound like, I guess I'll check them out at the store in the near future.
Re: Fantom users Who also have/used a Motif
I own a Motif ES6 and ES8.
Oh btw, this is my first post here. Just purchased a Fantom XR unit.
The Motif ES series are fine instruments. I can do anything I need to on it for pop/rock/dance type stuff. Good sounds. I don't have a problem navigating it but I've been using one since the original Motif, about 3 years now. So, I've had plenty of time to get used to it. Also, any sequencing I need to do I do on a computer, then just record it directly into the Motif. So I never had to mess with that part of it.
What sold me on the Fantom XR was the acoustic piano. I find it simply stunning. It is currently my all time favorite. I own a Motif ES, Yamaha P-90 digital piano, Roland RD 170 digital piano, and the Fantom XR. Out of all of them I much prefer the Fantom XR piano.
Not everyone will agree. We all have different tastes. That's just my preference. Some of the folks over at the Motif Forum tend to be a bit biased without reason just because it's what they own. Probably true of any forum for that matter.
Can't comment any further on the Fantom X vs. Motif idea since I've only owned my Fantom XR less than a week now and have been mostly just exploring the piano. Plus I have the rack unit which lacks some of the features of the keyboard versions.
I don't think you could go wrong with either though. Both are fine instruments. Just have to play them both and see what you like best.
Oh btw, this is my first post here. Just purchased a Fantom XR unit.
The Motif ES series are fine instruments. I can do anything I need to on it for pop/rock/dance type stuff. Good sounds. I don't have a problem navigating it but I've been using one since the original Motif, about 3 years now. So, I've had plenty of time to get used to it. Also, any sequencing I need to do I do on a computer, then just record it directly into the Motif. So I never had to mess with that part of it.
What sold me on the Fantom XR was the acoustic piano. I find it simply stunning. It is currently my all time favorite. I own a Motif ES, Yamaha P-90 digital piano, Roland RD 170 digital piano, and the Fantom XR. Out of all of them I much prefer the Fantom XR piano.
Not everyone will agree. We all have different tastes. That's just my preference. Some of the folks over at the Motif Forum tend to be a bit biased without reason just because it's what they own. Probably true of any forum for that matter.
Can't comment any further on the Fantom X vs. Motif idea since I've only owned my Fantom XR less than a week now and have been mostly just exploring the piano. Plus I have the rack unit which lacks some of the features of the keyboard versions.
I don't think you could go wrong with either though. Both are fine instruments. Just have to play them both and see what you like best.