No librarian?

[cello]

Sorry to hear you've sold your JP-80 trommis :(

I have noticed that the 2nd hand prices are very low compared to the new price and given it is still a current and supported keyboard. Several on eBay have gone unsold even at low prices!

Of course, not all keyboards 'do it' for everyone. I don't think there's hype as such on these boards - for me, it just does everything I wanted/expected it to do and more. So she's a keeper for me :)

I wonder why sales for the JP-80 are poor. I'm genuinely surprised it hasn't sold better.

I'm picking up vibes that something could be coming at Musikmesse by way of a librarian - but I'm not going to hold my breath, just in case nothing happens!

[Dewdman42]

I red their midi implementation doc.
They provide informations to make an editor, and this we needn't, but they don't provide the addresses
of sounds in memory, only the addresses of the temporary area, so, it seems even impossible any developper could do it.

well not entirely true. In this case a librarian would issue midi commands that load or store data from the temporary data area into preset slots. The temporary area would become a staging area for the librarian to shuffle things through between the computer and the preset memory. It is a bit cumbersome, but when its all automated you'd barely notice the difference between that and direct access.

I really don't understand why Roland doesn't at least enhance the existing IOS editor to have librarian capabilities, it would be an easy addition. But I guess they have moved their focus on to other products which they hope will sell better then the Jupiters did.

You can also fiddle around with Jsynth and make a librarian for us!

[Devnor]

Kronos not faring well on the US second hand market either. I think it's the economy. Motif XF really doing the best. I can't find a deal and most of the boards on ebay are grey market; not from end user sales. Yamaha really has everything together on their synths. Funny nobody ever mentions them except to bash their direction. "Its just rompler" and point to synths like EX5 like they were something great (maybe in the 90s, I own a EX5r). Software tools are nice but I have gotten along without; hell I don't even use the ipad editor.

[RayS]

I think it is part economy and part mfgrs. Spending 2-$4000 for a keyboard is not what I call a cheap purchase!! The Jupiter is supposed to be the best of the entire keyboard line, not a cheap $200 PSR from Walmart. But look at the OASYS how Korg abandoned that, and the Kronos came out with all its bugs. I bought into both those giving up good hard earned money getting broken promises. Then the VSynth being forgotten about and the Fantom bugs etc etc.. On and on.

I think we hope for something much better when a new keyboard is introduced, but always end up with the same frustrations as before. The mfgrs have put out too much crap lately using loyal customers such as us for "test dummies"...and very few of us left. All the keyboards have very long learning curves also, making a chore for any new user purchase. The big 3 mfgrs don't understand plug and play technology.

Not enough support goes into products anymore as they just release something new and forget about the past. I believe it is starting to come to a head with all the product sales being below average and too much junk coming from China ruining sales. Guitars are far worse though with all the crap being released by 3rd world countries.

[tnicoson]

I guess, for myself, I have to agree with cello. I bought the Jupiter 50 because I was looking for a 76 key, easily portable unit with a decent selection of some fairly decent sounding piano voices and a few other orchestral sounds thrown in, and the JP-50 seemed to fill that bill very well. I really wasn't even that interested in the "pure synth" features. Those were just frosting on the cake. I have posted my frustrations about not having a librarian because I had tried loading just the original sounds and the "Legends" sounds that I liked, but wasted the better part of a weekend's work. I finally realized I had bought the 50 based on its original sounds with no knowledge that there would ever be anything else. So I just reloaded the originals and have been happy with those. I further rounded out my arsenal with a Juno-Gi and have realized that what I really needed was a 76 key Juno-Gi. Amazon had one new Juno Stage left, but that was yesteryear's sounds and suffered the display problems of that era's Juno line. Like the JP's lack of a librarian, the MOTL Gi suffers from lack of a voice editor, while it's BOTL brother, the Di, has had one for some time, but here again, I had to realize I bought it for it's presets, not for it's ability to edit sounds. So, I guess I have just settled into being satisfied with what I've got, but I do sympathize with those who were expecting and need more in order to get their money's worth out of their investment.

Regards,

Ted

[ostrovitch]

I red their midi implementation doc.
They provide informations to make an editor, and this we needn't, but they don't provide the addresses
of sounds in memory, only the addresses of the temporary area, so, it seems even impossible any developper could do it.

well not entirely true. In this case a librarian would issue midi commands that load or store data from the temporary data area into preset slots. The temporary area would become a staging area for the librarian to shuffle things through between the computer and the preset memory. It is a bit cumbersome, but when its all automated you'd barely notice the difference between that and direct access.

I really don't understand why Roland doesn't at least enhance the existing IOS editor to have librarian capabilities, it would be an easy addition. But I guess they have moved their focus on to other products which they hope will sell better then the Jupiters did.

You can also fiddle around with Jsynth and make a librarian for us!

I guess other programming possibilities could exist, but Roland didn't document it.
I checked the manual of Integra7, they didn't document more, but the librarian will exist anyway for Integra7. So it means Roland kept some secrets.

It's a double problem, Roland doesn't provide a librarian, and doesn't want anyone to develop it.
Thery are maybe afraid it could run on PC.

Yes you are right, it would have been easy for them to enhance the existing IOS editor.
And for the Integra7 the librarian will be on Apple computer, even not on Ipad.

[Dewdman42]

the midi documentation for the JP80 has everything you need to know to write a librarian. its just a matter of taking the time to do it.

[PauloF]

the midi documentation for the JP80 has everything you need to know to write a librarian. its just a matter of taking the time to do it.

And I will add... And the knowledge!

[cello]

Indeed PauloF!

Unfortunately, today I have been very reliably informed that Roland 'has no plans for a JP-80 librarian'.

:(

[kimsnarf]

Unfortunately, today I have been very reliably informed that Roland 'has no plans for a JP-80 librarian'.

That is a bummer! Hopefully I will be able to free up some spare time the next few months to resume my own efforts (based on the MIDI implementation guide). First up is dumping the dependencies between registrations, live sets and tones. Next up is dumping the whole temporary area (as SYSEX) and using the format to upload sounds back to the synth. But no promises. :)

I bought the Jupiter-80 because it has very nice sounds, both analog-ish/retro and acoustic/real. It is also very tweakable (mangling) and is a good learning platform, both for sound design and for performance/playing. The keys have excellent response. Jumping through sounds is easy and fun with all the colorful buttons (and kids love them!). This synth fulfills many roles for me in one balanced package. I do not want lots of equipment. Nor do I want to be stuck at a computer when I'm experimenting/playing. As a bonus I am even learning some MIDI implementation due to the lack of a librarian. So I'm happy. :)

[RayS]

Just wonderful? Sounds A-Plenty..Space A-Empty!
I wonder who/what corporate somebody made that decision? Of course, all about the money I am sure! All the free sounds are useless without it. Why did they even bother? Someone needs to shut down the Sound Creation Dept and hire a Sound Management Dept.

I wonder whats next since they have abandoned the Jupiter? Integra User Interface with its 1980s tiny screen suck unless you have an Ipad and a MAC?? Ha.., And who wants to find, then select & download (into some small undersized memory module) the different SRX banks just to retrieve the different sounds?

Cant Roland find software/hardware engineers to design a "Simple User Interface" system that doesn't have to be dependent on ..or use small memory limitations, 1" display screens or be dependent on hardrives without enough space. GAWD!!

[PauloF]

Indeed PauloF!

Unfortunately, today I have been very reliably informed that Roland 'has no plans for a JP-80 librarian'.

:(

Can't believe it!!! :-o
Are you sure about your "source"?
So it seems that someone needs to make one then... ;-p

[cello]

Indeed PauloF!

Unfortunately, today I have been very reliably informed that Roland 'has no plans for a JP-80 librarian'.

:(

Can't believe it!!! :-o
Are you sure about your "source"?
So it seems that someone needs to make one then... ;-p

My source is as credible as it can get! So with MASSIVE disappointment we have to accept it's not going to happen.

There's two options I guess - 1) an independent builds a librarian and we buy it or 2) I spend many hours going through OSv2 and show which tones are used by which livesets and which livesets are used by registrations. That establishes the relationships of what's onboard with an untouched OSv2. Then we adjust our workflow. We create our own individual reduced sounds (using whatever document I produce) then copy it so we have three ROLAND folders on the USB stick (named appropriately as the OS can only read from a folder called ROLAND). One we never touch - it's only used to duplicate. The other is the currently loaded set and the remaining folder is used for spare slots. Perhaps they can be in genres.

I don't know - am still thinking about the best way to work.

But, yeah. We should've got a Librarian.

[Dany]

My source is as credible as it can get! So with MASSIVE disappointment we have to accept it's not going to happen...

It's sad to hear the news... :(

BTW: I think the JP-80 will be the last heavy Roland flagship of its kind for quite a long time. Roland, Korg and Yamaha are currently overflowing us with "plastic toys", because people don't want to spend money. It is currently probably the worst time trying to sell a JP-80 or an OASYS. It's better to wait wisely and I am sure we will be surprised some day...

;)

[ostrovitch]

the midi documentation for the JP80 has everything you need to know to write a librarian. its just a matter of taking the time to do it.

In the midi documentation, I only found everything I need to write an editor (unuseful of course),
but not a librarian...Or I need to change my glasses, or you have the complete documentation.