Midi Foot Pedal

[2Him4Him]

I did a search through the forum and was unable to come up with any topic that covered my question. (The closest I came was using a pedal to trigger samples.)

I'm a worship minister & professional musician and I have come to LOVE the use of click tracks and sequences over the past couple of years. However, there are times I really enjoy playing guitar (mainly acoustic) on songs that I have sequenced out. My problem is that I would like to be able to control my midi tracks (via foot pedal) during the worship time without having to turn around, walk back to my keyboard, pressing play or stop, and then going on from there. I would rather like to find a solution that would provide seamless transitions. (and I think I look like a tool if I were to stand behind my X8 while playing my guitar as well. My main objective is to provide the least amount of distraction as possible so everyone's focus will be in the right direction.

So, does anyone have any experience with, say, the Midi Mouse or Midi Moose (Tech 21), or any other controller that might help me out? I know other worship ministers use Abelton, but I really don't know if I have the funds for that (plus, I'm still on a PC :-( )

Thanks!!

[howardS]

Are these patterns assigned to RPS? I use my Behringer FCB1010 and send note information to my Fantom X6 which then runs various RPS patterns. These notes are mapped above and below my actual keyboard so that it doesn't take away any keys on my actual keyboard. You could certainly try something like this.

[2Him4Him]

No, I wouldn't be using the RPS function. I usually will create a whole sequenced track that adds depth and color to the whole (song). It can include strings, B3, pads, brass hits, etc. -- anything that can spice up the band a little bit. (A Click is always added as well that goes directly to our in-ears.) So, I guess I'm not looking to trigger an RPS pattern, but rather a full midi sequenced track.

I'll check into the FCB1010 and see if it has that sort of capability.

Any other opinions out there?

[howardS]

Ok. I thought it would be easy enough to copy the entire sequenced track to a pattern and trigger it from the pedal. RPS patterns can be a loop or you can set it to play just once from the pedal. So when you hit the pedal it would play and until the song ends or until you press it again. You can have it play samples or entire songs.

Anyhow, perhaps there is another solution that would work better for you. Let us know what you find.

[2Him4Him]

Well crap! I definitely don't know as much as I thought! (That's always the case -- the more I learn, the more I realize I don't know) I had no idea I could copy an entire sequence/song (some are fairly complex) to an RPS 'pattern'. I guess I just assumed that the the RPS function was only for assigning short patterns or samples. I wonder, is there a length/size limit?

[rcraven]

Is it just foot control for Start Stop Continue you wanted?
There is a MIDI System Real Time message for each of these that controls the FanX sequencer
FA= Start
FB= Continue
FC= Stop

There was a modification to the software of the Behringer FCB1010 called UNO.
It was further modified to output Midi Stop Start and Continue.
I have the software and Xavier's permission to distribute it.
It needs to be programmed into an EPROM chip and put inside the pedal board.
If you can do this or know of a tech that can I will happily send you the software and details.

Another solution is the Behringer BCR2000 or the BCF2000 both allow 2 foot pedals and they can be programmed to output the codes. Of course it can do dozens of other things as well.

MidiSolutions also offers small boxes that might do the trick
http://www.midisolutions.com/prodfsw.htm

All the best
Royce

[2Him4Him]

(Wow, I love this forum!)
@ Royce: To answer your question, yes. However, that's the very least I would want to be able to do. I would be content with that for starters, but then I'd like to see what else was available -- i.e. fade in/out, loops, etc.
Oh yeah! I would REALLY like to be able to click to the next sequence/click track as well instead of waiting on chain play! That's why I was checking out Tech 21's Midi Mouse/Moose.
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MIDIMoose/

Ok, so now I'm going to sound like a newb, but y'all lost me when you started talking about MIDI System Real Time message. I mean, I have a basic understanding of what you're talking about, but can someone give me a link or point me in the right direction so I can read up on manipulating those functions/messages?

I REALLY appreciate your willingness to send me that software! That's awesome! But before you go thru the trouble, let me do some research on what exactly will fit my needs the best. I'll def. take a look at those other Behringer models as well. Will I need that chip/software with those other models?

Thanks again for the incredible responses howardS and rcraven! Hope to hear back soon! Thx!

[howardS]

Your welcome, 2Him4Him. I think there are many benefits to the RPS route including fading in and out and of course loops. You can also have the option of clicking to the next sequence which you mentioned but I think that will work only if the sequences are all programed as individual patterns within the same song file.

Also, any MIDI pedalboard that sends note information would work. I like the FCB1010 as it also has the two additional expression style pedals which can send any type of controller information. Volume, Expression, modulation...

[2Him4Him]

So I talked with a Roland rep, as I'm trying to get a better understanding of codes and the real-time messages used within the Fantom midi. I would like someone to tell me if I'm understanding this right:

Using the 'control' 1/4" out jack on the back of the X8, you can assign several different messages/functions to that pedal (except fade in/out), but not more than one at a time. I.e. Using that output, you can't assign Start/Stop and another Control change at the same time. That's why I'll need to look for something such as the FCB1010, so I can assign and send multiple signals (via midi cable) to my Fantom at the same time. Is that correct?

I was also told by the Roland & Sweetwater rep that it's pretty much impossible (with and without a pedal board) to scroll through songs/sequences within the Fantom to select the next one to play. I'd either have to go with 'Chain Play' (which I'm not exactly thrilled with), or copy and paste one song onto the tail-end of another. I'm not exactly sure how to do that yet, much less how to program the patch changes that must take place within the sequence (i.e. changing from piano to B3 on track #1)

Anyway, I just hope I'm on the right track. It looks like I might still be leaning towards the BCF1010, but need to know more about programming it and its capabilities.

[howardS]

Using the 'control' 1/4" out jack on the back of the X8, you can assign several different messages/functions to that pedal (except fade in/out), but not more than one at a time. I.e. Using that output, you can't assign Start/Stop and another Control change at the same time. That's why I'll need to look for something such as the FCB1010, so I can assign and send multiple signals (via midi cable) to my Fantom at the same time. Is that correct?"

I think that is correct. What I do sometimes though is re-assign that pedal using...wait for it...RPS. Yes, I have used RPS to change an effect and at the same time re-assign my expression pedal to instead send controller information to manipulate my wah-wah effect. I have also changed it to Tap Tempo when I want that function from my pedal. You cannot sent Tap Tempo info from the FCB1010 as the Fantom doesn't respond to that through MIDI.

I was also told by the Roland & Sweetwater rep that it's pretty much impossible (with and without a pedal board) to scroll through songs/sequences within the Fantom to select the next one to play. I'd either have to go with 'Chain Play' (which I'm not exactly thrilled with), or copy and paste one song onto the tail-end of another. I'm not exactly sure how to do that yet, much less how to program the patch changes that must take place within the sequence (i.e. changing from piano to B3 on track #1)

I dont use backing tracks but I think chain play is the only way to link more than one song sequence together on the Fantom. If you dont want to use the chain song function then perhaps you can play the separate songs into a computer and then play them it back to the Fantom and record them to separate patterns within one song. Then you assign the patterns to RPS and play them back with the pedalboard.

Another option for some shorter parts might be to record the tracks as samples and then trigger them with RPS but that could take forever to load the samples.

much less how to program the patch changes that must take place within the sequence

I am not at my Fantom at the moment but I think this is easy. You just load up a patch/performance right next to the one you want for the sequence, then hit record and then change the patch/performance. So, for example, if you need patch 003 then go to 002, hit record, turn the dial to 003, then hit stop. If you go to microscopic song edit you will see the actual patch change event so just move that to the stop of that sequence so it sets the patch/performance right at the beginning of the sequence.

[2Him4Him]

If I could 'upvote' you and Royce, I totally would. :-) You guys are AWESOME! I know on other forums they have point systems and what-not that can be 'awarded' to those who devote their time and energy to intelligent/helpful replies.

Great ideas! I've been Googling EPROM chips and seeing if I can actually program one. (I know I can install one.)

Seriously, many blessings on y'all for taking the time to help a guy out. I'm hoping I can become a contributor to a forum like this soon.

BTW, I would still be interested in hearing from anyone else that has possibly been in this situation and in learning how y'all dealt with it!

[howardS]

Uhm, thanks again!

Regarding the upgraded eprom upgrade. I have it but dont use the added functionality at all in my set up. I think it gave stomp box functionality and some other benefits but I didnt see any benefit when using the FCB1010 with the Fantom X. This is in particular because I found that the easiest way to use it was just to send note information. In this way you do all the programming on the Fantom and assign it to the right key. You dont then have to do anything extra on the pedalboard once you program it to send the correct note information.

Ok, that's enough for now. Let's see if there are any other creative solutions out there for you. Report back to us, 2Him4Him, if you find any other way to accomplish all this.

Howard