When will ROLAND release their next Workstation ?

Everything else from Roland that doesn't fit elsewhere
keysme
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Re: When will ROLAND release their next Workstation ?

Post by keysme »

Otherwise, this new workstation is going to have to cost roughly $5,000 since it would need to be positioned above Jupiter-80 if it's going to be adding a bunch of functionality ... and a "real" workstation needs more than four parts so it may require much more DSP ...
The Jupiter-80 only comes in one flavor... 76 key. The Jupiter-80 can't be Roland's answer to a workstation keyboard because we would also see it in a 61 and 88 key variety also correct? But since we don't have a clue what Roland is doing behind the scenes (chirp chirp) one can only guess what Roland will come up with as far as their next flagship 61, 76, 88 key workstation solution. I say "workstation" with a bit of hesitancy because Roland may in fact kill off the traditional workstation concept and if they do what we'll probably see instead is a 61, 76, 88 key flagship - minus the sequencer, sampler?? and possibly with no expansion capability either, just like the Jupiter-80. Which is hard to fathom how they could call such an instrument a... flagship product... when it may indeed lack three distinct professional characteristics that make a flagship keyboard a true flagship. Those would be an internal Sequencer, Sampler and Expansion capability. At least if you go by previous flagship workstation keyboards produced by Roland and company. The latest... and possibly last??... being the Fantom G needless to say.

Yammie and Korg still make traditional workstation keyboards i.e. with sampler, sequencer and expansion opportunities e.g. the Motif XF and the new Korg Kronos. So there is still an opportunity for keyboardists to get a full-blown workstation if they want. In fact, Roland hasn't discontinued the Fantom G line as of yet either so a full-blown workstation option is still available through Roland as well obviously. Indeed, Sound on Sound magazines expert review of the Kronos stated a couple months ago that the keyboard that came closest in sound quality with the Kronos was not the Motif XF or some Kurzweil, etc. Rather, it was the Fantom G according to him.

But since the Fantom G has been on the market over 3 1/2 years now and I gotta believe that Roland will release something very soon (perhaps winter NAMM '12??) as a successor to the Fantom G that will have 256 note polyphony and a host of other advanced features and no doubt many superb sounds as well. Will it have a sequencer, sampler and expansion capability? That's the 64,000 dollar question on everyone's mind that has yet to be answered.

Another question mark is will Roland perhaps discontinue all future 61, 76, 88 key (three version) series keyboards altogether? That's another possibility perhaps also. Too bad Roland personnel continue to keep their user base in the dark on things. I guess they feel they don't owe their loyal customers (and/or potential customers) the privilege that Yamaha and Korg users have access to regarding "behind the scene" knowledge of upcoming products. And as such it kind of makes for a dreary experience since many users feel we're being left in the dark - which we obviously are - and consequently enthusiasm starts to wane as a result. Of course it's always cool to have interaction with fellow Fantom G owners here on this forum but the missing element is Roland staff participation. Which I guess we scared them off with our bold topics and questions which they seemed perplexed to interact, answer and/or follow up on. Silly us.

Hopefully though the current lull in excitement will change when winter NAMM '12 rolls around. Don't hold your breath though. ;)

Sorry again for the rather long post. I get on a topic that I'm impassioned about and it's sometimes hard to express my thoughts in a paragraph or two. Thanks for your patience.
Leh173
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Re: When will ROLAND release their next Workstation ?

Post by Leh173 »

I hope they don't abandon the Fantom G type concept for a workstation. It's quite good, just a real shame they didn't tie up some of the loose ends (multisample file format anyone?). I'm not a fan of workstations generally but this one I like, though I use it more for playing, haven't used the sequencer. I would hope they are just taking their time to get the next one right. Maybe it will be all supernatural + sampling and a sequencer. Anyway I'm satisfied with what I have for now.
kday
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Re: When will ROLAND release their next Workstation ?

Post by kday »

Roland went back to the drawing board after the failure of the Fantom G

They have a new workstation in the works, but probably won't be released until after summer 2013

Roland may have lost their minds but they aren't dumb & stupid, they had to upgrade their sound engine because they been hearing how old and crappy that RDAC compression technology was on the Fantom keyboards. For Roland die hards it may be worth the wait, but for me I don't have to wait, I bought a Motif XF and don't regret any of it, not one tiny bit.

You will see either Flash Ram like Motif XF or Internal hard drive like Kronos in their next synth, they can't afford to lose again like they did on the Fantom G. Either they comeback Big & strong or we can start digging them a grave so we can dump the wasted metal in ground. They have a lot of hungry loyal customers who's been waiting for something new and exciting from them, so they better not disappoint or they may be looking to file for bankruptcy here in the US for a 3rd consecutive flagship synth low seller.
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Quinnx.
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Re: When will ROLAND release their next Workstation ?

Post by Quinnx. »

As far as the G goes they don't need to release another workstation..

If they had any real sense the G could last a long long time.
To revamp the G all they need do is create a super ARX board and an OS update to complement.
The G already has enough to be useful as both a controller and workstation.

But obviously R&D don't understand this potential and will develop or should is say recycle the current OS and just put it in a new box.

Either way the market is changing towards hardware workstations.
Because of other more flexible solutions like PC DAW the days of the Workstation being the center of a one mans studio are gone.
kday
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Re: When will ROLAND release their next Workstation ?

Post by kday »

It's about economics when it comes to new products. Companies don't want their current synth products to last too long, that cuts in market share & profits. If they exercise that practice they would go out of business from low profits. Roland has to keep people buying the next synthesizer like any other company. They can't afford to take the time to perfect any one synth, otherwise folks wouldn't buy they next one and they would go out of business. New is always and will forever be the business model of any manufacturing company. All synthesizers have a life span of R&D, regardless of how much work was completed in OS upgrades. Any important feature left out during that 1-2 year R&D life span is lost forever unless planned in advance for OS 2.0 in which you would know in advance upon purchase, other than that, on to the next one as all available resources are used for the next product. Roland wants all Fantom G buyers to eventually upgrade to the next synth to hit the market as there will be no continuing G support for old products when the next synth in the making is considered the new one. Roland needs their next set of Workstations to be a complete success or they may be in trouble. There will always be a vibrant, healthy, enthusiastic crowd of synth hardware buyers out there waiting for the next big thing to hit the market until the end of time just ask Yamaha and Korg. Hardware synth will never ever die for those who can afford it like always. People who can't afford the latest greatest hardware dream machine will probably gravitate to a $500 soft synth they think can replace the hands on ingenuity of a professional hardware workstation made for the 21st Century.
markWar
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Re: When will ROLAND release their next Workstation ?

Post by markWar »

>New is always and will forever be the business model of any manufacturing company

"Always"? "Forever"?

It's just this contemporary, assembly-line, industrial revolution world.

It really wasn't all that long ago when, for instance, "Steinway" and "Stradivarius" manufactured products that you could pass down to your son or daughter or protege and they would be happy, thrilled even, to have an old product.

Right now "new" is the business model of all manufacturing companies. BUT--

It really isn't inconceivable that electronic instruments might some day get manufactured with such attention to design and functionality and build-quality that the product itself becomes the focus, and not whether or not a product is "new" or not.

(Or so I would hope. But I once knew a studio guitar player who believed jazz was going to come back as a popular music genre, just because he loved it so much and because he believed it was so uniquely human. I HOPE we can get back to great products.)
kday
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Re: When will ROLAND release their next Workstation ?

Post by kday »

markWar wrote:>New is always and will forever be the business model of any manufacturing company

"Always"? "Forever"?

It's just this contemporary, assembly-line, industrial revolution world.

It really wasn't all that long ago when, for instance, "Steinway" and "Stradivarius" manufactured products that you could pass down to your son or daughter or protege and they would be happy, thrilled even, to have an old product.

Right now "new" is the business model of all manufacturing companies. BUT--

It really isn't inconceivable that electronic instruments might some day get manufactured with such attention to design and functionality and build-quality that the product itself becomes the focus, and not whether or not a product is "new" or not.

(Or so I would hope. But I once knew a studio guitar player who believed jazz was going to come back as a popular music genre, just because he loved it so much and because he believed it was so uniquely human. I HOPE we can get back to great products.)
I don't know what you're saying but I meant "new" as in new technology, new features, new excitement if you didn't understand that part. Not just new and is never used before.

These are multi-dimensional workstations that can play a piano, organ, strings, drums, sequence, and record your vocals and can't be compared to basic one dimensional , one piano.

Hardware synths will never die and manufactures will never stop making them.
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Quinnx.
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Re: When will ROLAND release their next Workstation ?

Post by Quinnx. »

In the end does it realy matter if roland do another workstation??

there is nothing they can offer that will improve the ability to make music.
To many choices already exist for it to make any difference..

I mean look at kronos..
Yes its up there.. but does it really offer any more than what is already available..
does it realy make a real difference to music makers?

If you already have a G and your already making music your wasting time looking for something to replace it.
Now maybe for live use there maybe something useful but you wanna be making dollar to justify spending again for what you may already have.

For production purposes there is realy no need to be looking elsewhere
Dorkas
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Re: When will ROLAND release their next Workstation ?

Post by Dorkas »

IT'S THE TRUE PRIVILEGE OF US ALL TO ASK TO ROLAND A REAL SYSTEM UPGRADE TO 2.0. YES WE MUST
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delirium
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Re: When will ROLAND release their next Workstation ?

Post by delirium »

the only way out for fantom G is making OS open source by roland.
apex
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Re: When will ROLAND release their next Workstation ?

Post by apex »

Quinnx. wrote:In the end does it realy matter if roland do another workstation??

there is nothing they can offer that will improve the ability to make music.
To many choices already exist for it to make any difference..

I mean look at kronos..
Yes its up there.. but does it really offer any more than what is already available..
does it realy make a real difference to music makers?

If you already have a G and your already making music your wasting time looking for something to replace it.
Now maybe for live use there maybe something useful but you wanna be making dollar to justify spending again for what you may already have.

For production purposes there is realy no need to be looking elsewhere
these statements could be true 10 years before the Fantom G. None of these "tools" hinder us from making music, but they all can help. In one way or another. They all bring something to the table that may or may not be in something else... and if it is in something else already, it may make it more accessible or easier to accomplish.

As far as the Kronos is concerned... I must say, the Kronos is a very VERY advanced machine. Reading and listening to it alone does not do it justice. You have to experience it first hand. And even that... it would be great if you could spend time in an isolated environment and play it. I love how it sounds and what it brings to the table feature wise. It's the only instrument that I would even place in the same conversation with the Fantom G as far as control is concerned... more specifically external control.

To say that newer keyboards and newer technology don't really bring much to the table is a very harsh statement... the horse and cart would still get us from point a to point b... but no gas stations are going out of business....

the end result is the MOST IMPORTANT THING... but HOW YOU GET TO THE END RESULT could be more important... depending on who you ask.

If you came home with a 1 million in cash, I'm sure your wife/etc... would be very happy. But I'm also sure she'd want to know where it came from??!?!?!? (and I'm sure she wouldn't be ok with, "does that really matter"?

I know our tools only help us get to a certain place, but the better our tools are, the more efficient we SHOULD be...

efficient is the name of the game... maximum production with minimal (wasted) effort or expense.

to me that says, get the absolute best results with the absolute least resources.... right? if we get the same results, but it takes you two times as long (workarounds, programming, etc...), who's more efficient?

Who's gonna get the gig?
Rodan
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Re: When will ROLAND release their next Workstation ?

Post by Rodan »

Always amusing to read threads like this. It shows the diversity of opinion which is probably a very good thing from the point of view of creativity and music making.

Some blame Roland for coming out with new instruments and making the old ones obsolete, that it is somehow a plot. But I don't think so, quite the opposite. Look at the title of this thread. There are a lot of people that enjoy new hardware because it stimulates their creativity. All the manufacturers are trying to satisfy this demand, and of course make money while doing it. There is no conspiracy here, simply supply and demand.

Some are more interested in efficiently making the music that is filling their heads. For them, an economical tool that allows them to proceed with the least amount of interference is the answer. Seems like a DAW can fill the bill. Relatively inexpensive and doesn't have to be updated to remain useful.

Since I have no insight into the sales figures for workstations, I can't comment on whether we have seen the last from Roland. My guess is that there are still quite a few people that like the idea of picking up a big old work station and setting it up in their music room even though they have it sitting right next to a computer and DAW.

As for leaving my Fantom as an inheritance to my children, well if it had cost as much as a grand piano, maybe. But I am pretty sure that 20 years from now they will look at it as an interesting relic, sort of like my grandmother's pump organ, but not worth keeping based upon what will then be efficient, affordable and available to them.

So having added my 2 cents, are we up to a dollar yet?
kenchan
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Re: When will ROLAND release their next Workstation ?

Post by kenchan »

Rodan wrote:As for leaving my Fantom as an inheritance to my children, well if it had cost as much as a grand piano, maybe. But I am pretty sure that 20 years from now they will look at it as an interesting relic, sort of like my grandmother's pump organ, but not worth keeping based upon what will then be efficient, affordable and available to them.
yah, i feel the same. the FG does not have the 'special' character like a real instrument. it's more a machine/appliance feel than anything to me too. if the kids want it when im done they can use it but it will probably end up in the recyling bin (or traded-in) after is all said and done.

like my FA76 has been in the basement for many years now and has no real value to me any more.
ive kept it cause i can use it as a keyboard controller for daw. :D
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Quinnx.
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Re: When will ROLAND release their next Workstation ?

Post by Quinnx. »

Strange...
we seem to be pulling in all directions when it comes to sound and usability..

we started with simple OSC synths and wanted more real
then moved to digital and finaly sample based which you cant get more real than that...

But still we want now more artificial sound of yester-years analogue synths..

Cant we just choose one and get on with it..?
Rodan
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Re: When will ROLAND release their next Workstation ?

Post by Rodan »

Quinnx. wrote: we started with simple OSC synths and wanted more real
then moved to digital and finaly sample based which you cant get more real than that...

But still we want now more artificial sound of yester-years analogue synths..
LOL! Exactly Quinnx. I hadn't thought about it like that before.
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