I wish everyone would stop crying!!!! JUST GO MAKE MUSIC!!!

[apex]

@ cyclops

I never said the FG didn't have shortcomings. I never said that it can do everything that I want it to do.

I just said let's spend less time concentrating on those things, and more time making music. It's really alot of energy that is being used for nothing. I mean seriously, what has the complaining done? What has listing and talking about the same problems over and over again done to make the situation better. What good does it do to go on and on and on about what you wish the Fantom could do. I mean even if they'd released a piano ARX card yesterday, there would have still been tons of people that wished it was a virtual analog card, or an organ card, or an orchestral card, etc.

There is no way they can make everyone happy. Do you really believe that the don't know people would like an ARX piano card or any of the things that are needed/and that could be implemented in an OS update?

Secondly, this is not a rant. (I don't think...) It was meant to be positive and maybe make people think... hey maybe it's not so bad. I can still make great music with this instrument. And I don't belong in either category. I just use it for what it is. I just accept the instrument as is. I didn't purchase the Fantom G for what it could become during updates, etc. I purchased it because of what it could do the day I bought it.

Same reason alot of marriages fail (in real life). People marry people that they plan on trying to change/mold into what they want. Not for what they are right then. Marriage is the same as that $3000 purchase... you really only buy what's in the box. Who knows what's going to happen down the road. If it get's better.... good for you, but don't be pissed if it doesn't. And when it stops doing what was described on the box, just hope it's within your warranty period... then they can fix it for you. But you can't expect more than what was in the box when you bought it. That's just reality man.

Right?

Exactly, why should it be any different. Why would you buy something that is not what you want? LOL Just seems stupid to me. Bad logic. on your part. No I don't work for Roland, and I'm not connected to them in any way. I would just rather come on this forum and not have to weed through tons and tons of the same complaints over and over. I'd rather come here to help people learn their machine and get better at using it, or come here and improve my skills with the instrument. It gets kinda old having to read through all that same stuff all the time.

Just like EA sports and the Madden franchise, there is no need to change the product if people keep spending their money on it. If it's really that bad, then don't give Roland your money.

[Atlas5]

those that can't do, whine!

Those that can, just do.

The Fantom G7 is a great keyboard. The only musical instrument I've ever owned that could do more, was a CD player.

The CD player has an elegant operating system, "Just hit Play". Unlike the FG, I did not have to even read the manual. Sequencing is simple, it simply plays one track after another.

Maybe, just maybe, Roland will update the OS to 2.0 and just like the CD player, "hit" music will come out of it with only activating one button.

HAHA

But there again, if people stop whining, what would we discuss on the forum? If people start to RTFM, what questions would there be?

[comradec]

apex: "I purchased it because of what it could do the day I bought it."

Except by reading the specifications and playing with the synth in a shop, you wouldn't know what the Fantom-G could do the day you bought it.

In respect of the G's data management system, it's like buying a new car. You read the write-ups from the manufacturer's website, you have a look through the documentation, study the specifications and read a few reviews in the trade press or whatever. Then you go to an auto dealer and give it a test drive. Great, you think, this feels really good. I'll have one of these.

So you buy the car and get home. You start using the vehicle. Everything seems fine. It handles perfectly. Yeah, you're really getting places with this. A wise purchase, you think.

Then, after a few months, you decide to use the box of tools and the jacket you put in the boot/trunk of the car. Hang on, they won't come out. What's going on here? The things you put in the boot/trunk cannot be removed.

So you get in touch with the manufacturer or consult a user forum. No, it can't be done, you're told. Once you've put anything in the book/trunk of this particular vehicle, it can't be removed. No, you can't take it out of the car and put it somewhere else. It's just not possible. We never said you could do that in the first place, you're told.

But wait a minute, you respond. Being able to remove items from a boot/trunk is surely something you'd expect to be able to do on any car. Every other car you've owned before, or heard of anyone else owning, allowed you to do that. It's common sense, isn't it? Like gravity, it's something that ought to be taken for granted.

No, we never said you could do that, they tell you.

[RobJuno]

You won't know me here, I'm from the Juno-G threads, where I've ranted endlessly about the most minute details of its operation.

All I can say is this...

I wish I could afford a Fantom-G so that I could come and moan in here too!

LOL

[apex]

I bet if you give comradec your keyboard and a portable hard drive he'd trade out with you....

or maybe just the portable hard drive.

I didn't buy my Fantom new on the day it came out. I got it in Feb. And yes I had a pretty good idea what it could and could not do the day I got it. I was sure that I wanted one.

I've ran into some questions and things that I thought I could do... but never once considered complaining because I couldn't. I just found another way to get the things done that I needed to get done.

[mojkarma]

"and to answer your imaginative question. You should buy a keyboard where you can load all those things into it.

NOT BUY ONE THAT CAN'T AND THEN COMPLAIN CONTINUOUSLY BECAUSE YOU CAN'T DO IT. JUST SELL THE FANTOM G AND BUY ANOTHER KEYBOARD."

A couple of things:
1. You can't find out everything just by reading the manual. You find things out by using the instrument. That's what beta tester usually do before a product is released.
2. I'll make it clear: I don't complain about the polyphony, I don't complain about "missing" ARX cards, I don't complain about the fact that there is only one insert FX per patch. Those things are probably hardware related and can't be changed. And the user knew it from the beginning because it is clearly written on Rolands website.
3. When it comes to the file system, based on my twenty years experience, I would never in my life check that feature in the manual because the function Load 1 Song/Patch/Performance/Sample/Multisample is something which is considered as normal since the early nineties on keyboards. If you are about to switch from let's say Windows to Mac OS, would you check if Mac OS can move/copy a single file or multiple files at once? Or would you expect it to be there.
4. As a matter of fact, I have the biggest and most expensive Fantom G. The G8. I live in a country of about 4 million people. Now, what do you think, how good are my chances to sell the Fantom G8 in a country with 4 million people? In this times. Do you really think that selling something which costs over 3000 Euros is just as easy as you think, anywhere in the world? Do you think that everybody in the world earns 4-5000 dollars and simply buys/sells something like the FG as it would be a hot dog or a glass of beer? Please, think twice before you suggest somebody to just sell his keyboard if he is not satisfied. I had to order it, wait for it 2 months and I'm the second one in my country who owns the G8 version. I even know the other guy who bought it first. That's two G8 in my country. And a couple more when it comes to the G6. I can't risk to buy stuff like you because I can't sell it as easy as you. So, the last thing I have is to hope for a proper OS update. I don't even expect new functions. I'd like to see some, but I certainly don't complain about not having them.
But I still wonder about people who act as the whole world functions and looks like their own country, regardless if it's in a good or bad way. I would just say, open your mind (and your eyes).


"SIMPLE RIGHT? OF COURSE!!!! "

As you see, it's by far not as simple as you think.


"Instead of complaining, could you not just take your laptop on the road with you...? or get the Fantom XR, doesn't it allow you to load the samples in the way that you want? "

Absolutely not. I'm a hardware guy when it comes to gigging. No laptop. That's why I spend money on workstations. And the Fantom XR wouldn't help me anyway, besides the fact that I don't even own it. Do you know of a way to load multisamples into the Fantom XR? That's what I complain about, but you obviously don't use that feature and thus don't realize some of the biggest flaws in the Fantom generally. Roland, who produced samplers in the nineties, Roland who even sold sample libraries in the nineties didn't find a way to define, set and release it's own multisample file format which would assure that you can take your hard work from one version to another. Any other of the big companies has a known file format. Hence, even my ancient XP80 was able to load single files from a floppy. And now I have a high resolution television screen on the keyboard, capable to watch even porn on the stage if I want to, but I need a computer to load single files? I need third party software to deal with single multisamples?


"My issue is not altogether with the complaining... just that there's more complaining than there is music being made. (seemingly at least)"

Yes, you are absolutely correct here. There are two solutions. Either Roland has really bad luck and got with the Fantom G a lot of completely insane customers with serious brain damage, or there is something wrong with the product they sell. I'll cautious guess that the second one is the case.
See, when you look the development from the historical perspective, no company changes some essential stuff. You don't put the most basic function into the product, and than put it out for no good. If I as a former XP80 owner had the experience, that I can load either my full set or just part of it into the keyboard, I'll expect the same functionality on the most present machine. I will not check it before buying their newest instrument.


"Complaining is not going to change the FGs operating system. It's not going to help anything. Do you honestly think a multi million dollar company goes on a website forum and fashions there business concepts, marketing strategies, or product line based on what a community of people want?"

Ok. And what's the alternative? To be quiet and accept the things as they are? Just so, that you or some other user don't get upset by our complaining? I don't care about their product line. I care about their flagship keyboard. It's up to them if they want my money in the future or not. Take the original Fantom as an example. It was a total failure because Roland was the only one who released a workstation without a sampling function at that time. I guess the sale numbers were so great that they release a new Fantom version just a year later. And guess what, they didn't even learned their lesson and made the mistake a second time with the Fantom G. The multisampling function was added later. Instead of developing that part and make it better from one version to the next, they made the same mistake twice and put a halfbaked function as a later add on. They have a business. Thats certain. But in my eyes they don't have a concept. That's why they never had a similar successful keyboard as the D50.


"Out of all the Fantom Gs that have sold, how large of a percentage do you think those 400 people are? Enough to get change? LOL If you were a CEO would you change your business so less that 5% or so of the people that have purchased your product can stop complaining? "

First, you should know that complaining also happens in most other forums in other languages. People complain about the same thing as here on german forums (the other language I speak) and they complain on forums in my own language. And I listen about the same complaining from my friends who don't even participate on forums.
What would I do as a CEO?
I would certainly read from time to time what people write. If Yamaha, Korg and Kurzweil can do it (some of them are multimillion companies I guess), than I could do it to. I would analyze what can be considered as an unrealistic complaining and where users really show that there are flaws in the design.
If I would be the CEO, the Fantom G would never release the factory without a halfway proper file system. And some other flaws.
Look at the display in Live Mode for example.
You see a visual recreation of the sliders in the lower left corner, indicating their status/position. And then, next to this screen is another which shows you the the dedicated midi function of the sliders and the value in numbers. Imagine, on that big screen, they made two windows instead of putting all those information into one window. As it is, I have to look at one window to see the status and position of the sliders and than, I have to look on another screen to see what function is connected to the respective slider and its midi value.
Those things happen when people design products just for the sake of designing and selling it, without to think just for one second "wait, is there a way to present the data to the customer in a better, simpler, faster way".
Want another? If you want to change from preset to user, you have to move the cursor to "user" and change it to "preset", than move the cursor back to the patch name to be able to change the patch. And than, you have to put the cursor again back to "preset" and change it to "user" and again move the cursor to the patch name to be able to select another.
Imagine someone at Roland would have the idea and say: "wait, why couldn't we change between preset and user just by pressing the live/single buttons. Press the live button, user appears. Press it again, preset appears. Press it once again, and the user is back.
But why should it be easy if it can be difficult.
I have to hunt the cursor all around the screen to change between preset and user, but what a surprise, I have two dedicated buttons for the ARX sounds which I have to buy before the buttons becomes useful at all.
I'll tell you, as a CEO, those things wouldn't happen even before I would know if there are 400 or just 4 users on the whole world complaining about the FG.


"give me an example of what you mean need sounds that are not in the ROM. Please?!?!?! "

A giant number of ethnic sounds which are very important to users all around the globe. Those sounds cannot be in the ROM because neither Roland nor any other company can give you every specific sound you need. That's the part where gigging musicians use samples/multisamples. In Europe, there are all kind of different instruments, important for the local music, starting with accordions and ending with a wast number of plucked or wind instruments. Do you miss a mandolin trem sound? Probably not. But there are musicians who simply need that sound for their music because they play at least 10 or more songs on stage with that sound as an essential part. Imagine the music in the arabic world. They probably don't need pianos or hammond organs that much. But they need all kinds of ethnic instruments important for their music. So, using the sampler and multisamples is an essential part of the keyboard for all of them. And thanks to Roland, nobody of them can exchange a once created multisample with another user. Every single FG owner has to create his own multisample for the same instrument because the single samples are all he can load into the FG. And before he can even create his multisample, he has to write the keyzones manually to paper from the users FG.

[Quinnx.]

apart from some short comings on the g, issues like touring or going live and not being able to import stuff has alot to do with expectations..

its only after you have the G for a while you start you realize its limitations.
Problem with that is, you have already being developing your music without knowing these limitations and now cannot get around them because you painted yourself in to a corner..

Knowing its limitations is where you need to begin then you can organize and plan ahead.
I think i now know how limited the G can be which now help me decide how I`m gonna work with it.
Okay so its going to take a lot of time to get your work on the road when you have hit that brick wall the 1st time.
hopefully you will only have to do this once and learn from the experience and take it in to account next time your creating your next album or whatever.
It means next time your going to have to work a little different that you did when you 1st started using the G and serve you better next time.

[kenchan]

apex- you write/talk too much. you should stop posting and spend that time making music yourself! hahaha jk

[apex]

@ kenchan LOL

[Atlas5]

I own the G7 & X7 along with the motif XS, M3 and the PC3. They all have limitation, short comings. I bought all of them without regard to specification and/or functions. I feel the Fantom G has evolved well, not necessarily better than the others, but well non-the-less.

The PC3 is a beast of a workstation, it's hard to understand and the sequencer is right out of the Korg M1 era, p.s. I still have my M1.

The Fantom G has been serving me well in live situations. Good sounds and easy operations.

If I was in need of a different sound set, with more ethnic instrument sounds, I would use something else, the the GW8 or Pa500, (I have this also). These keyboard have sound sets more in line with those type of applications.

I know it is rough living in a country were it takes 2 months to get an instrument that you'll never be able to sell. Here again, I'd suggest doing the research and ensure I was purchasing the best instrument for my money.

I still have my D-50 also, just compare the sounds and features there. No sampling, no sequencing and I paid about the same amount of money for it.

I think a lot of the whining or complaining is just hot air. What do you expect from a keyboard these days? They all are very similar in the feature per dollar area, regardless of the manufacturer.

It makes me laugh though that one of the major complainers here does not even own the FG. What the heck!

I just got a new sweetwater catalog the other day, check it out, a Fender Rhoads for $4000 dollars, that more than I paid for the FG7, this thing has one basic sound and no sequencing or sampling, not to mention how much it weighs. (and no I don't have this keyboard any more, I sold it off years ago to get the D-50).

I don't think Roland or any other mfg pays much attention to the complaining or whining. They listen to the money, and compare their products to the competition.

I don't know about you guy's, I am going out to my studio and play with my FG until my fingers hurt.

here's my suggestions;

1. Buy what you can afford.
2. Use the forums to find work-a-rounds for the problem or issues you have.
3. RTFM, before and after you purchase an instrument.
4. Alway complain about a product on the competitors forum. (that's right, whine about the FG on the M3 forum, because there you'll get the support you need, haha)
5. Never sell anything
6. remember, it not the instrument that's the problem, it is the user or the application.
7. If you don't like it, sell it or suck it up
8. make music, not forum rants.
9. don't expect any thing to improve after you've purchased it.
10. If it improves and is updated be happy, most thing don't. except wine.

[MeNotU]

Example 1

CHILD: I wanna know why I can't have an ice cream
PARENT: Because you've already had a choclate bar and it's almost tea-time, it's your favorite beans and sausages.
CHILD: ok

Example 2

CHILD: I wanna know why I can't have an ice cream
parent:
CHILD: I wanna know why I can't have an ice cream
parent:
CHILD: I wanna know why I can't have an ice cream
parent:
CHILD: I wanna know why I can't have an ice cream
parent:
CHILD: I wanna know why I can't have an ice cream
parent:
CHILD: I wanna know why I can't have an ice cream
parent:
CHILD: I wanna know why I can't have an ice cream
parent:
CHILD: I wanna know why I can't have an ice cream
parent:
CHILD: I wanna know why I can't have an ice cream
parent:
CHILD: I wanna know why I can't have an ice cream
parent:

Maybe the odd answer from Mum or Dad could help?

[V-CeeOh]

I still have my D-50 also, just compare the sounds and features there. No sampling, no sequencing and I paid about the same amount of money for it.

+1
I also have a D-50 and that's EXACTLY what I think (although I wish I had the money and the space to have a Rhodes )

[jahrome]

I would cry into a mic in order to sample it with my Fantom G..but what would be the point? The sample editing and multisampling are still in need of much improvement. lol

[Daniel Mioni]

LOL jahrome!

Hey IF roland come up with something that we are asking for I will be here to say " I wish everyone would stop LAUGHING!!!! JUST GO MAKE MUSIC!!!!"

And for the record, I wish I had bought FG8 Instead FG7. Because FG8 comes with escapement. :-p

Now I´m going back to my not super natural pianos.

[V-CeeOh]

Because FG8 comes with escapement. :-p

In fact, it doesn't t Daniel, The G8 has a PHAII Ivory Feel keyboard but without Escapement. So you don't have to regret buying the 7