Why does the Aftertouch sounds so badly ?

[JamesCohen]

I've tried to configure the Attack/curve of the aftertouch, but couldn't change it.
The problem is when playing Strings sounds:
If you want to start the sound quietly and then use the aftertouch to raise the volume/level , it looks like there are no levels in the aftertouch - it looks like an on/off mode, which results a terrible jump in the level instead of leveling up according to the pressure on the kbd.

Is there any way to adjust it ?

James

[Arjan]

Have you tried using an expression pedal instead of aftertouch? Somehow I've never been very impressed by aftertouch on any keyboard I played. I find that an expression pedal gives you much more control. I have a Roland EV-5 or something like that, I use it a lot on my JP-8000 for controlling filters and Leslie-like effects. I hope to use it on my Fantom-X6 to control the Leslie rotary speed as well.

The only downside of using pedals is that sometimes I end up having difficult to balance myself with both my feet on pedals and playing two keyboards at the same time.

[mucsusn]

Aftertouch is generally not a great way to modulate volume. It's good for filter changes and things that have a slope in their application. Volume changes are just that, and in aftertouch, which is a midi command, I think that the feature just changes from one volume to another, which is not very natural musically.

The expression pedal is the way to go, I believe.

Arjan, do you play standing up, or with a bench?

[Artemiy]

Yes, both in my former XP-80 and now in FS I also find that controlling volume with aftertouch is not that good. Filter cutoff, LFO rate and other effects react well, but not hte volume. I now it's good to use both hands, but maybe you can try a one-hand part combined with a volume knob - much more expressive, believe me. Of course, an expression pedal is a way to go, just like guys suggested.


Artemio.

[Arjan]

Mucsusn,

I play standing up, looks much better on stage when you play in a (progrock) band. Sitting is for wussies, the only keyboard players that are allowed to sit down are real piano players

[Phil B]

"I play standing up, looks much better on stage when you play in a (progrock) band. Sitting is for wussies"

You know, I always thought the exact opposite. After all, when I was growing up, Greg Allman and Richard Tee sat and the guy from the Flock of Seagulls stood up.

[Red Winger]

But, if you were really cool, you'd bolt a couple straps to your FS and wear it over your shoulder like an axe!!!

[Artemiy]

RW: yeah and go on like "...you're my heart, you're my soul..." LOL!!!

Arjan: agreed But we all will proably be sitting keyboard players in about 70 years whether we want it or not

[JamesCohen]

Thanks for your reply Arjan, but I was looking for an answer describing how to solve that problem on the FS, and not going around it. I’m sorry that you haven’t found a kbd that does AfterTouch perfectly, so here are a few suggestions:
If you’re looking for a kbd which does that perfectly, try the good old Ensoniq TS-10 or ASR-10, or try Yamaha’s organs/electones (HS/HX/EL/ELX/AR series). If you want a kbd that does it good enough, try Kurzweil K2500-2661 or Yamaha’s synths (Motif/EX/SY). If you want a kbd that does it O.K. try Kord O1w/Triton/Trinity or Wersi Pegasus. And if you want a kbd that does it poorly (sorry for that, but it’s true) try Roland’s JV series and Fantom series…

Please let’s make an effort to find out what’s wrong with its after touch and fix it..

James

[Mexico]

I was about to post a new thread about the bon of a sitch aftertouch on my Fantom X6, and after reading this thread I know I'm not alone.

I just about dislocated a friggin' finger here trying to get used to the FX6's aftertouch. I can't imagine using it all night long. It's just way too hard. You gotta press with all your might to get it started, at which point you have absolutely no control over it. It's either on or off, more like an "afterswitch."

Then I remembered there's a System parameter to adjust the aftertouch sensitivity. It's set at 100 by default. Change it to something like 50, and you can use your elbows to get the aftertouch going. Yes, that setting makes it even harder to use...

Anybody has any good recomendations? I use the aftertouch sometimes for pitch (electric guitars, blues harp, etc.), but not anymore, I guess. I'm sad... Just a little... :'(

M

[FireBall]

I also didn´t like the AfterTouch on the X7 at all, it was much more expressive in my XP30.
After doing some investigation i found that it may be the programation of the AfterTouch and not the hardware itself because if you go to mixer and then part watch or something (I only bought the X a few hours ago) you can see graphics for various parameters and if you choose aftertouch you will notice that in the graphic it reacts very well and has a big travell form 0 to 127 when pressing the keys but when aplied to a pacth it doesn´t.
Another thing i noticed is that if you are playing a chord with one hand and do aftertouch on other key it won´t just affect the key you are using aftertouch but also the chord i´m playng with the other hand. Anyone knows why this happens? Is it because of channel aftertouch? Can it be disabled to only affect the key where we use aftertouch?

[Mexico]

I don't think the Fantom has poli afterfouch, just channel. I'll check what you said about the aftertouch response. Thanks!

M

[TweakHeadz]

The Fantom does have poly aftertouch on the pads, not on the keys, which are channel aftertouch. I just spent time in Logic trying to build a transformer to alter the absolutely wretched channel aftertouch "curve" on an S88. No go. While it is not an "on/off" switch it may as well be.

When I got my S88 I spent a long time looking for the switch to turn AT on. I could not get it to work at all it seemed. Then I finally read here to "press harder".

Watching the data in Logic, you can see that despite increasing pressure on the key, nothing happens till you get to the bottom of the press, then it rapidly scrolls through about 4-10 values till it hits 127. After it hits 127, you can ease up just a tiny bit and "almost" control it in the middle range values. Unlike other keyboards, it is extremely touchy after it hits 127

Interestingly, I am able to redraw the aftertouch curve in Logic to make it sound expressive. This means there is nothing wrong with the Fantom as a synth, its the physical controller's interaction with the synth.

Another interesting point is that the keyboard's aftertouch does not sound as bad with my Triton rack, though it is not as good as other keyboards I have used. (My alesis QS8 had far better AT). It still takes WAY too much pressure to trigger it though! This gives me hope that they could actually fix it, that it is not just a matter that they bought keyboards with bad AT sensors.

Friends, this implementation of channel AT is inexcusable for a synth of this caliber. It's BAD. It has no redeeming value. We should insist that Roland fix this even if it is the last thing they do for the S-series.

TweakHeadz Lab

A great site for learning about electronic music. http://www.tweakheadz.com

[nsheldon]

This seems to be a consistent problem with all (or most) of Roland's 88-key keyboards. The old A-80 had unusable polyphonic aftertouch on the keys, the Fantom-S apparently has poor aftertouch sensitivity, and my Fantom-X8 as equally poor aftertouch sensitivity. Though my Fantom-X8 aftertouch doesn't seem to be quite as bad as you've reported, TweakHeadz, it's not great. I understand why Roland did this though. With such heavy keys, if the aftertouch was very sensitive, you'd be sending aftertouch data with every fortissimo key press.

Regards,

Nathan Sheldon
http://www.nathansheldon.com/

[lazeeboy]

I find the aftertouch unusable as well. They might as well not have included the feature. To countermeasure the triggering of aftertouch information when playing ff notes, i think adding a small delay after each keypress would do it.

Regards,
Laurenz Nitert