Using the fantom G as a midi controller

[Billymiller]

My church just purchased a fantom G8 for use in our worship services. Our previous keyboard setup involved a roland a90 controller and a korg triton keyboard, now that we have the fantom we have replaced the A90 but would like to still use the triton along with the fantom.

As I was playing with the new setup, I found that when controlling the triton from the fantom, the sound was shifted down 1 octave from where the fantom was playing at. I was wondering if anyone knows of a way that i can shift only the outgoing midi data while not affecting the fantom? In other words, I only want the external keyboard to be transposed up an octave, but the fantom to stay put. After some looking I was not able to do this. I would like to be able to do this from the fantom itsself and not have to transpose the triton.

[Jimknopf]

You should control external instruments within a User Live Set for full internal + external control while still being able to switch seamless (including effects) between two internal sounds. You can also do it with a User Studio Set if you don't need seamless internal switching.

Now some necessary edit pages for external control are missing in the present Fantom G OS. But there is an easy workaround with help of the Fantom G editor. Start it and go to
- Live Set
- External All Parameters: there you find a "shift octave" slider.
You will find other useful parameters for external control (keyboard splits, pan settings etc.) there and in the two following editor entries.

Don't forget to save your result...

[Tony Long]

Can someone help with this and help me understand it. I use my Fantom G as a Midi Controller and have other rack synths connected via Midi.

All I want to be able to do is simply play a sound on the G and layer it with a sound on my other synths. Now under OS version 1.10 I could only do this in Studio Mode and Live Mode, it would not work in Single mode ( I find this extremely annoying), but now in OS version 1.20, I can only get this to work in Live mode.

Surely a workstation of this price and sophistication should have a MIDI setup that can achieve any setup need, but this seems to be a very basic need, I don't think wanting to layer a single patch with an external synth patch is much to ask.

If this can be done, I have missed something, but Roland do not make this obvious to me.
Grateful for any help or advice.
Thanks
Tony Long

[jessej]

Soo... what are you trying to to do exactly?

I have control of 16 internal + 16 exp 1 and 16 exp 2 + 16 eternal MIDI tracks...

[Allex Bessa]

How to record MIDI in Single Mode in a sequencer?
Why not works in Fantom G and in the X works?

[Jimknopf]

That does work with the G sequencer. In single mode, just press record and then play. After recording, switch to song mode and find your recording in track 1.

[Tony Long]

Hi you Guys,

Thanks for your replies but I am not talking about recording, I am talking about simply playing live two sounds, one on the G and one on a rack synth. The Fantom G is the only keyboard I have ever had trouble with this simple situation and now version 1.20 seems to have made it worse in that I have got to be in "Live" mode, which is nonsense. At least with Studio Mode under version 1.10 it was possible to layer a Single mode sound in Studio mode with an external synth.

I hope I have made this clearer now.
Thanks again for any help - I am probably missing something very obvious.

Thanks
Tony

[Jimknopf]

Tony, if there is any problem, it's on your side.

1. It makes no sense at all to be in single mode, because in single mode you obviously control ONE sound and not two.
I rarely use single mode on the G, because it does nothing but single patch administration (user patch editing, pfx settings).
To me it's just the sound pool, no operative mode I would use much.

2. Why in the world should it ever be "nonsense" to play live in Live Mode? Sorry, but that is completely beyond my understanding.

3. If you prefer studio mode, what's the problem?
Let's say you have an internal patch dialed in in part one (you chose it in part view). Now you want to route your keys (or a certain split key zone) to an external part. Switch to "External" (F6), chose your part according to the required midi channel and there you go, including basic settings (MSB, LSB, Program Change, Level and Pan).

Nothing has changed with that in 1.20.

There's only one tricky thing which should be fixed in a future update:
- at the moment some advanced external parameters are missing from the G Menu. You have to start your Fantom G editor software (with your G connected) to adjust settings like octave switch and others for external gear.

But all in all there is no problem at all using external gear. The G has much better masterkyeboard functionality than many other synths.

[Tony Long]

Jimknopf,

Without changing any of my setup version 1.20 has certainly changed things for me. I have tried to use the word "simple" in what I say here but with complete respect I think you clever people are trying to over - complicate the issue here.

The limited time I have with my synths after I come home from work, in the main I just want to play. Lets take an example of a simple piano and strings. I know the Fantom can do this on its own but for the purposes of this lets say I want to play the single mode piano patch on the Fantom together with a String program patch on a Korg M3.

Under version 1.10, the only way I could do this was to be in Studio Mode. Under version 1.20 I cannot do this at all.

Is this any clearer?


Thanks again - I appreciate your time

Tony

[Jimknopf]

It's just as described in 3.
Have you tried to set up and save a user studio set for your purpose like that?
If anything is unclear for you in doing so, just name it.

[Tony Long]

Jimknopf,

Yes I could do as you say, but you are still missing the point(s)

Firstly, please believe me that version 1.20 has changed things.
Secondly, lets say I am trying to find two patches that really layer together well. One as a single patch on the Fantom and another a program patch on the Korg M3. So I find an excellent program patch on the M3 and want to scroll through in single mode on the Fantom G to see what works well with this excellent sound. If the fantom has such a great setup - why can't I do it?. I don't want a workaround or any excuses - it should be able to do it. After all it can in Live mode. I can just scroll through the sounds and hear the changes. It used to work in Studio Mode under Version 1.10. It has never worked in Single Mode. Now under OS 1.20 it will only work in Live Mode.

Thanks

Tony

[keysme]

Tony, I have recently installed OS 1.20 and MIDI out works fine in either Studio, Live, AND/OR Single Mode.

In Studio Mode under OS 1.20 the default for the Kbd switch is now OFF. To get midi out to work you must first enable the Kbd switch i.e. turn it ON. Here is the reference by Dan Kirsher of Roland U.S.: "(Note: The Keyboard Sw switch is now set to “OFF” by default in the Studio Mode’s External mixer display. By default only internal MIDI data will be sequenced to a phrase. Set the Keyboard Sw to “ON” when you wish to send MIDI out to external devices.)"

As far as getting midi out to external devices in Single Mode what you need to do is: While in Single Mode press the Pad Mode button then press PAD #10 (0/Midi TX SW) then press either PAD #1 or PAD #2. PAD #1 is for PART 1 and PAD #2 is for PART 2. PS: The sequence should be: turn your Fantom G on and then make sure you are in Single Mode. Then turn your external device on and make sure it is set properly for receiving midi. Then follow the instructions I gave you i.e. = "While in Single Mode press the Pad Mode button then press PAD #10 (0/Midi TX SW) then press either PAD #1 or PAD #2. PAD #1 is for PART 1 and PAD #2 is for PART 2." You should then be able to transmit midi to your external device(s) in Single Mode. Hope this helps..

[The Audacity Works]

Yep, many people have noticed that the Fantom-G records extra EXT part 1 data to a track when sequencing in Live or Studio mode. The event list is filled with twice as many notes. For 1.20, Roland turned off the KBD switch so only the selected part's data is sequenced.

This makes perfect sense.

On the Fantom X, Yamaha, or Korg, each of the sixteen tracks can be sent to either the internal sound engine or an external sound engine. So if you, say, have a Virus Ti connected to your Fantom X, there's no way you'll be able to use more than 16 sounds total (unless one track layers the same performance to both a Fantom X and Virus part). So you have 32 parts, but you can only use 16 total in your song.

With the Fantom-G, external parts are independent of the internal parts. This means you can have tracks 1-16 sequence the Fantom-G's sounds and tracks 17-32 sequence the Virus Ti's sounds. When you're sequencing track 1 (Internal Part 1), you don't want to also hear part 1 from the Virus Ti. THAT's why MIDI is disabled unless:

1. An external part is selected.
2. The KBD switch for an external part is turned on (in which case, data will be sent to this part regardless of the part selected).

Tony Long:

So I find an excellent program patch on the M3 and want to scroll through in single mode on the Fantom G to see what works well with this excellent sound.

If you're using version 1.10, and want to ONLY sequence the internal part 1, you'll also be sequencing the M3 part 1 as well. You'd have to manually turn off the KBD switch anyway. You have to admit that most people would want to sequence only the part selected, and not the part selected plus always external part 1.



But obviously, if one's going to use the G with a DAW, you'll want to follow one of the two above procedures.

Make sense?

[Tony Long]

Thanks to you both for time and explanation. I am now able to play the way I wish and also have an explanation of why Roland has done this.

Tony