sharp protest gainst closing the update thread

[Atlas5]

thank you Artemiy,

As you said it's your forum, and thanks to you, it's our forum too. I am ready to move on, I vowed not to whine.

As implied in my other responses, If I was so dis-satisfied, I sell the FG.

Artemity has put up with a lot of whining, give him a break. He has my full support. The real whiners here, have no room to post.

And many of the threads/posting in all forums are simply crap to me.

I suggest any body wanting to dis roland or the fantom G do it on another site..like korg forums, where it may be fully appreciated.

[Zephyer]

Hi Jimknopf This is said with the greatest respect.

First, I want to say my personal views reflect that of TAW (first page), in fact I have said many of those very same words, shame on you for ripping my stuff TWA. But, I also believe in supporting my family and friends in there endeavors even if it‘s not something I care for much. And I don't believe it’s cool to abandon them. You still have my support Jimknopf, just not here, I will continue to support your youtube effort, let me explain why not on the forum.

Their is one thing I place above the previously stated and that is my respect for authority. I have been both a follower and a leader so I understand the importance of both. As far as Roland Clan goes we are all followers under Artemiy. As a follower it is important to know the heart and mind of your leader. We should be able to predict what he would think about a scenario and then act accordingly. I am somewhat ashamed to say I missed it this time, sorry Art.

Think about this, what would happen if your friend came into your house and begin to teach your children something you do not believe in and then you ask him not to. And then he looks you in the eye turns around and began to teach them anyway. He would provoke very strong feelings of anger and probably be kicked out ,I think most of us would behave in that manner. When you come into someone's house you have to abide by there rules. What is good to do in your house may be taboo in another's.

Also, I live in the good ole USA, land of the free they say. Would you believe in America teachers are not allowed to teach religion or lead students in prayer. It’s ok to do in our house and just about everywhere else but when it comes to school it’s taboo. It just causes to many debates and arguments. So it was banned to keep order and peace so students could concentrate on work. So even though I may feel it’s wrong I respect that decision, if I want to speak against it I would do so in court. That is what has happened here, the bug fix/update topic just causes way to many problems and now has become taboo.

Jimknopf I am 100% sure Artemiy has a lot of love and respect for you. You have been with him a long time and have helped to build this forum into what it is today. You are a member of it’s strong foundation. If the bricks of a foundation split apart the house will become weak, it will fall. Jim, you have defended art many times remember This lets stop this we know where it leads. The decision has been made the topic is taboo now, lets let it go you will lose nothing here as far as respect. As far as I am concerned you have more of mine, it is hard to stand up in this way when so many of your friends disagree with you. You are one of the most intelligent members we have Jimknopf use your intellect to decide not your heart. It was the right choice all we did was fight, come on friend lets stop this before we say things we don't mean. We can do this somewhere else, you tube or anywhere else you want.

For now I feel and I think you understand as well that Artemiy made the right choice for the clan.

[Artemiy]

Think about this, what would happen if your friend came into your house and begin to teach your children something you do not believe in

Exactly. As we say here in the Ukraine, "don't come to someone else's church with your own regulations".

Jimknopf I am 100% sure Artemiy has a lot of love and respect for you.

Confirmed

[secret Roland agent]

Does this mean that I have to return my new uniform? Oh well! Maybe I can go duck hunting!

[Jimknopf]

Zephyer, I appreciate your respect a lot, and understand you only wish the best for the forum.

But both thinking as feeling tell me that there is no way I will accept the latest developments here. I have a lot of respect for Art's efforts to keep this forum up. But I don't regard *anyone* here as a leader, including Art, although I always gave and give Art a certain bonus for being the founder and keeper of the forum. I see need for respect, but not for following views I regard as leading into the completely wrong direction.

I don't want to do any harm to anyone here. But, as many of you know, it is deeply unjustified and wrong to create an atmosphere of disgust and even of recognizeable hatred by denouncing people who just speak for their interests and legitimate rights, as "whiners", "dissers" or other nonsense, if even a short use of the search function would show that *none* of that is justified towards people like jessej or me or others.

So keeping to something which I still regard as a totally justified and a perfectly "just cause" - and also as a useful way of putting user interests over to Roland as well (even if others don't agree on this), has become a question of character to me meanwhile.

I'm still quite relaxed, because this is just a keyboard forum and not anything more essential (thankfully), but I am really convinced that some very unhelthealthy forms of self-censorship (I'm not talking of payrolls or the like) is going on here meanwhile, a deeply unsound kind of Roland fanboyism I hoped to overcome as one of the two wrong alternatives (the other is complaing about anything and really dissing Roland for nothing or close to nothing). So I'm sorry I have to disappoint you, but I just can't give in to something like that in here, because it belongs to the things I really think should be opposed, anytime and anywhere...

It would be easy just to quit the forum, and this may still be an option making some happy in here to be undisturbed.
The only reason I have not yet opted for this solution is that I don't like ducking away in view of facing massive pressure efforts...

[Zephyer]

I understand and respect that Jimknopf.

I hope you guys can work this out, your one of the good ones here I would hate to see you leave because of this.

[Atlas5]

hey Jimknopf

When you quit the forum, can I have all of your Roland equipment?

Sorry, but the only real freedom we have here is to not be a part of it, the same freedom we have at every forum.

As I type this, I see a copyright symbol in Artemiy's name not mine or any body elses. I recommend you let the dogs be and move on.

[Jimknopf]

Great proposal, wow!

What better could someone like me do with my Roland gear, than give it to people who instantly „buy“ any form of self-censorship in one breath with any product they buy (well, else they hadn’t have bought it, they were not forced, were they?), and then obediently keep silent after they bought something, as long as they don’t return it altogether.

That’s why everybody returns his car immediately if the radio doesn’t work, or keeps the car without working radio in silence. Demanding a fix is for whiners and dissers.
Must have lasted hours to stumble upon such a brilliant idea. ))

As for copyright, check the real meaning in Wiki…

[Andy Keys]

Woah! This suddenly got really heavy, guys.

Surely we're all here for the same reason: love of our Roland gear, sharing tips, helping each other out when we're stuck and all that good shit, right?

I'm kind of on the fence with Art's closing that thread. I can see that it is important to keep it in people's minds that Roland has failed to offer some really basic functionality, but I can also see that that thread's descent into endless repetition won't really help anyone.

Surely you'd be better off posting on other forums like Harmony Central where people go to read user reviews BEFORE they buy a synth AND mailing Roland DIRECT to say what's wrong with the G?

PLEASE don't let this place become another internet wasteland: aim it at Roland, Not here.

Cheers
Andy
Myspace: Andy Keys and Firegarden

[understanding]

We Need a Roland Angle to come down and recue us!!

[jessej]

>No, it is not... initially at least. And even objectively, it isn't. But after eating the same stuff 10 times a day for a few months, I have a stomach disease. So yes, it feels like crap now.

Yes I agree. The crap from Roland Japan not releasing the LONG OVERDUE update. 10 times a day, there is the same bugs or 'can't do this' crap.

It's not the users fault. It is the manufacturers fault.

This is my opinion.

[The Audacity Works]

Jimknopf:

But I don't regard *anyone* here as a leader, including Art.

It doesn't matter what you regard, because Art *is* our leader, because it's HIS FORUM. We are guests at his house party, and when a group of drunk dudes show up demanding everyone's attention and taking away from everyone else's good time, they have no intrinsic "right" to be there. This isn't 4chan, this isn't a grocery store parking lot. If Art wants the loud drunk dudes to sober up and chill, they better do so. Because it's his house.

Occasionally, drunk dudes are funny, as they'll say as many (inadvertently) insightful things as WTF things. Occasionally there'll be an off-color joke that has the party in stitches. Except when the punchline is shouted FIVE HUNDRED TIMES, it's ceases to be funny. Or helpful. Just annoying.

And I've been at parties when the drunk guy starts yelling about his rights when the host asks him to behave or leave. Except a real drunk guy at a meatspace house party has more rights than anyone here, because he didn't agree to the terms of service when walking in the door.

It doesn't sound like you want democracy. You want to be able to do and say anything YOU want regardless of the rules. That's anarchy.




Look. There are problems with the current incarnation of the G. We ALL know this, because it's been hammered into our skull ad nauseum.

We get it.

Continuing "The Fight" may make you feel like you're doing something to help, but you're really not. If you're doing anything at all, it's convincing the public at large that the G is a dog—even though the majority of of us love the thing. If it starts to affect sales, it could mean the rest of us don't get our 2.0 or 3.0.

Basically, if you're at a house party and the beer is flat, mentioning "Hey guys, the beer is flat" will hopefully get the hosts to go grab another keg. Instead, if you attempt to start fifty people chanting "THE BEER IS FLAT! THE BEER IS FLAT! THE BEER IS FLAT!", everyone will leave the house and all we're left with is two inches of flat beer.

What's worse, everyone will remember the party for the drunken chant, not the cool people, insightful conversations, hot chicks, and full bar of top-shelf liquor. No one will want to come to the next one.

I want to stay at the party a long time. And I'd like another keg please.

[madAhorn]

" If it starts to affect sales, it could mean the rest of us don't get our 2.0 or 3.0."

Hmm...So it is all on us...hmmm...

If I were Roland, I would communicate just a tiny bit to stop this from happening.

My last word on the subject.

Art is a great leader of this Forum!

I feel for him that he has to hear all of this, but Roland is to blame here.
I personally will no longer speak of it again, however, until after Namm 2009.

[madAhorn]

Dan from Roland just left a post on the memory stick question.

That gives me hope! He said Roland is working on the situation with memory sticks.

Thanks Dan for giving us some insight about the G and it's future!

All is not lost. ))

[superchris]

jim dont bother with these guys. Art has a a$$ kissing team(audacity......) and they stay riding his nut$. Hes a god to them and they enjoy defending him. I dont understand why you HAVE to read the posts people??? Thats why each thread has a TITLE! So basicaly what it comes down to is that YOU are the whinners complaining about us taking a stand. Whos forcing you to read the threads?? Stop being a double standard and think outside of the box for once in your life. LOL the people saying that were whiners are actualy the ones who like drama, otherwise they wouldnt read and respond to the posts. Man, could you guys be anymore transparent. We should just start another roland site.