The Natives are restless... ;)

Forum for Fantom-G6/7/8
keysme
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The Natives are restless... ;)

Post by keysme »

Well guys and gals it appears the natives are noticeably restless here on the Fantom G forum. ;) I think our energy can be used for better purposes though, than to constantly remind Roland what they already know. ;) Sticking it in their face as a constant reminder doesn't help the situation in my opinion and only diverts our attention away from discussing useful topics that could help better serve the group as a whole. :)

I think what jessej did with his youtube video is useful and should be able to reach a much wider audience in the long run if he has set up his tags correctly, and it is something that should get the attention of Roland Japan in a more effective manner, since it would be reaching more people and specifically - the general public worldwide. But I think the constant bickering and dissent I have observed here on Roland Clan these past few days will only frustrate the situation in my opinion. It affects Clan members because it diverts our attention away from useful discussion about the Fantom G, but also it could obstruct useful participation from our new Roland staff support on this forum as well, in my opinion - e.g. Dan Kirsher, Jim Stout, Mike Acosta, etc. If we appear as a bunch of whiny kids coming down from a sugar high, I could see where Dan or other Roland staff members would shy away from participating very much (or not at all) because of the caustic atmosphere here on Roland Clan and more precisely on the Fantom G forum. ;)

Roland is well aware of what "we the people" expect and want in regards to our Fantom G keyboard, but unfortunately, driving thorns in both of Roland's hands and producing bad blood between customer and manufacturer will only go to slow the process of when the next OS update reaches us in my humble opinion. :( In other words, don't expect the Parent to give the bratty kids everything they want when they want it. ;)

I guess what I am trying to say is: let's try and behave like mature adults about this. :) Or if you want to be a kid at least try and stay off the sugar and keep your room clean, okay? :D Roland will respect us more if we try to be more "tactful" in our approach regarding the next OS update. When we resort to taking the "low" road it only hurts in our efforts to obtain the objectives we seek.

My first advice would be to delete the thread that constantly reminds Roland of their shortcomings ;) (or lock it so it slides down and out of sight) and in so doing will also divert our attention back to more useful forum discussions instead of preoccupation with the obvious. ;) This is Artemiy's call though. If he chooses to leave it or keep it unlocked, so be it. ;)

When you constantly remind someone of their faults it does nothing to boost their esteem or resolve their desire to change for the better, or consequently, to boost the moral of the perpetrators either. ;) If we just lighten up a little and give Roland a little slack I think it could do wonders for the whole situation and it might be an incentive for Roland to give us OS 1.20 just that much sooner. :) Either way though, at least it will go towards helping us get back to more useful discussions about the Fantom G. :) If we let it, that is. ;)
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piaknowguy
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Re: The Natives are restless... ;)

Post by piaknowguy »

I agree. Thanks for that, Keysme!

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Jimknopf
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Re: The Natives are restless... ;)

Post by Jimknopf »

Keysme, your arguments don't convince me:

- a constant reminder diverts attention from discussing useful topics? How could that be if only a handful of users takes part, and don't even stop taking part in discussing "useful topics"?

- "constant bickering" frustrates the users? Could it be, that what frustrates the users much more, is having to rely on a sequencer without smf support since about 5 months? This is a basic function for any serious sequencer workflow.

- you depict uttering a legitimate customer issue as "bratty kids" behaviour, just to name one example of a whole row of impolite and offensive name calling? And you think acting in this way entitles you to act as one of the "Parents" with capital P??? ;-)))

- finally you add to your adult politeness by proposing to "delte the thread" that reminds Roland???

- "or lock it so it slides down and out of sight"?


I have seen a lot of things in forums over time, but you really added considerably to what I would have expected as possible, in a forum with free speech within the rules of non-offensive behaviour. Seems like we have quite a different understanding of the values "adult", "respectful" and "polite"...
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Artemiy
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Re: The Natives are restless... ;)

Post by Artemiy »

Frankly, all this whining caused me visit the site a little less frequent. In fact, I even thought about closing this forum for one day so that people can calm down.
Jimknopf
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Re: The Natives are restless... ;)

Post by Jimknopf »

The attribute "whining" belongs to the most misused attributes in this forum. It is regularly used to denounce *any* form of critical objections, for the simple reason that someone does not agree to the critical view of another. In this form of misuse the word has become close to meaningless. The only meaning left is:
"[Whine] I rather don't want to hear what you say." :-)

And one more: it really speaks for itself if a forum should be closed for a day because the members shall "calm down" ;-)))

Calm down from viewing such opinions on free speech and unwelcome "moods"???

Strange...
jessej
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Re: The Natives are restless... ;)

Post by jessej »

Yes I agree with pianoguy that there should be one thread for the demand of new os and that's it. That's the overdue thread.

Then there should be one for things we wish, that's the wishlist thread.

The rest can be all fun and games. Afterall the G is 90% OK and 'only' 10% undone, so why make all threads abut the 'whining'?

PS. Looks like 58% of Americans are 'whiners', because they want change. Oh sorry, make that 100%, because the other party also 'whines' for change.
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Artemiy
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Re: The Natives are restless... ;)

Post by Artemiy »

Jim, voicing an opinion regarding something that's wrong is called "voicing an opinion", which is okay. But repeating this over and over for two months is called "whining", which is not okay, it is VERY annoying - even for those who visit this place more often than once a week.
shakil
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Re: The Natives are restless... ;)

Post by shakil »

Hmmm... I am pretty sure the whining will disappear when Roland has fixed the issues with Fantom-G.

There are two kinds of users...

1. The ones who are Annoyed reading the posts about complaints.
2. The ones who are Annoyed at Roland for not fixing the problems, and as a result starting the complaints.... they are just looking for support of other users.

Both users have to calm down.
Keep it objective.
Don't beat the messenger.
It's Roland who released a flawed product and is not saying what's being done to fix it.
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Artemiy
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Re: The Natives are restless... ;)

Post by Artemiy »

See shakil, you are whining again?

No where is the shark when we need it so much????
chick corea
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Re: The Natives are restless... ;)

Post by chick corea »

me I do not like whine, I like DOES bEERS!! heh
JG
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Re: The Natives are restless... ;)

Post by JG »

"2. The ones who are Annoyed at Roland for not fixing the problems, and as a result starting the complaints.... they are just looking for support of other users. "

I think that it's pretty clear by now who's supporting who... Isn't it the same people complaining all the time?

I also find it very hard to believe that the whining will ever stop. Someone is always going to complain about something.
Jimknopf
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Re: The Natives are restless... ;)

Post by Jimknopf »

"Isn't it the same people complaining all the time?"

Now that's funny:
I support you not to be put into the cliche drawer of "defending Roland all the time"

And you answer by using the same cheap kind of denouncing cliches the other way round...
The Audacity Works
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Re: The Natives are restless... ;)

Post by The Audacity Works »

I just don't get the point. Roland OBVIOUSLY is aware of everyone's concerns. There's no way in hell they're sitting around thinking "Hmm... We were going to release 1.12 (or 1.2 or 2.0) in a few months if there were only twenty-six complaint threads, but now that there are TWENTY-SEVEN complaint threads, we'll suddenly work double-time.

At this point, I honestly believe we're doing a disservice. Some of my clients are beginning to question my inclusion of the Fantom-G into their rigs or installs, no doubt in part to the "work" done on this forum. If—and this is a very big if—we are actually affecting sales to a certain point, the G could be abandoned. We WON'T get new features. We'll get a bug fix release and Roland may just say "Screw you guys. The thing ain't selling thanks to you, so there's no point in pursuing it further." At a certain point, there's no way to repair public perception. The random sales schmuck at GC who tells customers the Fantom-G is buggy or hard to use isn't going to visit this site when the new OS comes out and makes it stable, robust, and simpler. The guy who says "The Fantom G doesn't even have UNDO!" doesn't care that it's had undo for four months. The reputation will hold.

So basically, we're bitching just to bitch. And after a short while, it ceases to help in any way whatsoever. We're like the kid who loudly keeps demanding a puppy, and our parents have already bought us a puppy—it's just not our birthday yet. But if we keep yelling "I WANT A PUPPY!" in front of everyone else at the mall, there comes a point where our parents get annoyed and take the puppy back.

If Roland Japan is aware of our issues, they're working on it. If they're not aware of our issues, repeating the issues over and over and over and over and over and over again will NOT do anything to help our cause.

But Dan's here now, so we have at least some sort of audience with Roland. It's time to politely ask for a puppy ONCE and then wait for our birthday.

And pray the puppy doesn't have rabies or crap all over the floor.
howardS
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Re: The Natives are restless... ;)

Post by howardS »

I really dont get why people are complaining so much about the Roland synths and their support. We have told them the features we want and we must continue to tell them we want it. But if you buy a product knowing that there are bugs or missing items then you cant blame Roland for not providing the updates. The RPS issue was raised by me before the product was even available for sale. I read the manual and saw it was missing and decided to rule out the purchase of a G....for now.

Purchasers of the G did not put money down in exchange for a product and a list promises regarding bug fixes. You paid money and bought the product with eyes open regarding its abilities. If you didnt know of these issues then your didnt do your homework. You cant blame Roland for that. Roland is listening and they do care about their customers but you must remember that they are a profit making company and so their agenda may different that your agenda. You basically all rewarded Roland by saying that you believe in them enough to purchase the product even with the missing features. In doing so you have shown them that they don’t need to complete the product for you to buy it. Hats off to those who are posting workarounds rather than whining.

All this said, I still say it is fair to keep emailing them and letting them know of bugs we find or missing features. So follow Quinnx's advice and keep communicating with Roland. I just think it is wrong to keep complaining about "missing features" as they were never promised. In the meantime, can we get back to exchanging ideas on how to best use these synths? Isnt that what this site was supposed to be about. Perhaps a decision should be made by the moderators and Artemiy regarding putting all of these complaining threads into the Free Zone.

TAW - I will wait for my puppy.
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Artemiy
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Re: The Natives are restless... ;)

Post by Artemiy »

There are like 4-5 people out here which repeat their song every day. The only excuse for them may be this well-known disease.

I think we need to open a forum section called The Whine Yard. How about this?
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