NEW FANTOM-G, PLEASE TALK HERE

[acoustictones]

Doug, I thought the audio tracks could be stored on the USB drive that goes into the back of the Fantom, and they are already using 8 gig drives with this unit. I don't think we are just relying on the 544 meg ram.

[Igglethorpe]

Hey guys,

I haven't piped up in here at all lately, but I thought I would give my 2 cents and situation. Since the selling of my X8, V-Synth XT, and XR, I've been having a lot easier time producing on Logic 8 with a Macbook. While I really appreciate Roland reinventing the workstation, I just can't really afford all these very expensive units with the new house I've bought.

In other words, I'm finding the migration to software easier and easier. The ONLY synth that I am truly happy with is the V-Synth GT. Rather than trying to incorporate all my tasks in one keyboard workstation, I've found my workflow to be far more intuitive and easy to swallow both financially and ease of use.

Hats off to everyone who plays live more often or prefers to work primarily in hardware and needs a keyboard like this. I think this is a stellar product that will really prove that hardware is still viable.

I look forward to hearing more about this keyboard as it gets into many of your hands.

[Septimo]

What I don't understand is why in this day in age we only have a maximum 544 MB, when my ipod has 30 gig? What would be the logic behind this thinking in workstations? Don't say price, cus that 30 gig pod is only $249....I don't understand how they would limit a $2000 machine to only 544 MB and not even one lousy gig....544 if anything, should be stock with the option to upgrade to at least a few gigs.....Is this a rule with workstations? Okay some here have said "It's not a DAW" then why would they go as far as going to a rediculously 24 tracks if they aren't trying to market it as one? as if the eight weren't enough already for workatation use....They could have saved that power for more importaint improvements...Lots of pro's and cons here....

[cix]

The funny part is they are not finished with the boardand they are giving everyone a chance to sell their Fantom x's ..and see what ideas the current fantom user are excited about and upset about ..so things can change..

To be honest ..This will be my last keyboard for about 8 years...to me there really nothing else you can do...besides having the actual instruments in the studio.

And now we ( producers know how to make our own sounds ..so the game is endless. I'll add cards but that's it


I talked to the people at roland today and asked about the G they said it should be out in a few more weeks.

[2TIM316]

To answer the complaints about the "limited" sampling memory, which is also used for audio tracks, I agree, it should have been expanded. But given what it is, the obvious application is one project/song at a time, using a combination of MIDI and audio tracks. To do more audio-intensive work, you move to a computer-based setup.

[Still Learning]

Hey Clan, I just returned home from NAMM and I'll be busy for the next few hours uploading video to Artemio from my day. I took lots of video of the Roland Booth and I'll share it all with you guys.

The Fantom G is truly incredible, I want one so bad... It is really an incredible sounding machine, the new waves are simply astounding and the quantity of the Fantom X waves on board is fantastic. The feel of the keys on the G8 is something each and every one of you just has to experience, words do not do it justice. There were several G6's and a G8 on display with Roland guys putting them thru their paces. Live mode and Studio mode are killer. You have to hear the absolutely perfect way this beast switches patches with perfect effect fade-out, it is incredible. Here is Roland's own Warren doing his thing with his bass and a Fantom G6.

[cix]

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SAVE $403.03 (14%) WHEN YOU BUY TODAY!
SALE PRICE:
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Roland could go all out and make this keyboard unaffordable..it's borderline that right now...and that's without tax ....so all of the they should should've..have to stop to some degree ..to add something is to take something else away and/or chrge 4000 dollars for more sample memeory and more polyphony more inputs more moe more ...more ..

They put ivory keys on a keyboad...lol... they are running out of thing to do with a keyboard...they have a mouse you can use for the screen on your key board..they have a HD screen ect..fader on the out side mute buttons on the outside ect..

[Still Learning]

O.K. here is one more of me sitting behing one of the new G8's Consider this my new board.

[smurf]

Very good point Doug! Roland seems to have been very short sighted when, on the one hand, they give the Fantom G the ability to record up to 24 tracks of audio and then in my opinion don't give the person the necessary storage space on the Fantom G to store that recorded material?!?! And as it has already been noted there is no hard drive to store it to and you can't record directly to the USB flash drive. Am I missing something here?? The Yamaha Motif ES can utilize up to 1 Gigabyte of RAM and the ES was released in 2003. Here we are in 2008 and Roland decides to max out the sample ram on the Fantom G at just 544MB??? And only PC133 DIMM memory at that??? Do they not realize that the latest SDRAM memory spec is DDR"5" and DDR6 is right around the corner?? What, are they stuck in the 90's or something?

The music might have been good back in the 90's but PC133 DIMM memory is considered obsolete and dead and fit only for the Smithsonean in my opinion. I guess Roland doesn't agree...

What is important here is that the Fantom G is still in the stages of being completed; evidenced by the fact that nobody but the demonstrators at NAMM are allowed to play it. So if the G's production has not yet been finalized, and isn't set in stone so to speak, then you would think Roland could change some things if they deemed it necessary and/or beneficiary to the consumer and also to their own bottom line. All we can do is voice our opinions, - voicing not only the good things about the Fantom G (which there are many I might add) - but also the bad, or areas and features that are considered lacking in our estimation. And then we have to leave it in Roland's hands to hopefully hear are pleas and our objective concerns and then for them to hopefully do the 'noble' thing and change the things that we as keyboadists and musicians consider are essential to make the Fantom G truly the exceptional workstation we know it can be and for that matter most likely already is in most areas. Fat chance right? ;P Maybe not. Like I said it is up to them whether they deem their customer base important enough to change course in mid-stream or not. If it isn't (or not possible at this point in time) then we will be seeing the Fantom G on store shelves as is. And then "grin and bear it" (for those of us who are leery or dissatisfied with the G's specs and/or features etc.; yet end up buying it anyway) or else shop around for something that better suits their needs. They aren't making us buy it that's for sure.

PS: They say that the Fantom G will be in stores around April. But I for one wouldn't mind waiting until June or July or even till October or November before they shipped the final product, if it addressed the areas considered by many to need addressing on the Fantom G. Note: I didn't say 'many' areas - I said the areas considered by 'many' that need addressing in our opinions. There is a difference.

[The Audacity Works]

MORE OBSERVATIONS (comments/questions from HC and Fantomized):

I also was disappointed to see the menu button still there. I thought it was gone. I hope that it no longer brings up that sprawling list of functions that overflows the older Fantom's screen and makes accessing parameters at the bottom of the list...
I think the Menu remembers the last mode selected, so if you were last in the System Menu, pressing MENU automatically highlights the System Menu. Press ENTER and you're there. Oh, and the ENTER button still accesses any parameter's value list, even though it's not labeled ENTER/LIST. Yes!

Do you remember if you want to simply turn effects on-off, does that bring up that totally stupid sub screen that freezes out all other onscreen functions until you exit it, like current Fantoms? That, and it's cousin- the tone on-off/select screen that does the same damage- are the two most infuriating things about the Fantom OS... things that the older XPs did effortlessly because they had dedicated front panel buttons.
The Pad modes include both tone select/tone switch buttons and FX bypass switches. They're not dedicated buttons, but it's about as close as one could get.

But... how do the filters sound?
Have no idea. I doubt the demonstrators do either. The noise on the NAMM floor is near-deafening. Roland is over by all the drum companies. :freak:

So I guess the old Fantom-S/X patches/performances will not be compatible with the new G.
Others have complained that there are any recycled waveforms at all. You people have to make up your minds! Somehow the Fantom-X was able to load XV-5080 patches, but it's impossible for every Roland keyboard to be compatible with the previous keyboard's patches—The Fantom-G would have millions!

really interesting would be how the fantom integragtes in to a software sequencer. does it stream the audio on seperate channels?
Roland didn't have any of the Gs connected to a computer. I assume it's like the Sonic Cell or SH-201, where the VSTi/AU acts as a SysEx editor and the audio streams (stereo only) into a separate aux channel (or if you have Logic, an instrument track with an External Instruments plugin instanciated).

Did you get to demo the new piano? Thoughts? New Rhodes? What about Wurly sounds?
There was a new "New York" piano (whatever that means). But again, it's impossible to critique any nuances with that cacophony. What I heard sounded great (notably better than the X), but most of my observations were from both the Roland guys there (unbiased of course ) and other passers-by who must have better hearing than I. The sound is always the first thing anyone mentions. I also overheard other companies' employees praising the sound.

Again, in a nutshell, it sounds like a really clean, open, punchy Fantom. If you hate the sound of Fantoms, you'll probably still hate the G.

If the G had more than 2 paltry slots - more like 6 or 8, it could have had the potential to compete with the multi-synthesis ability of the OASYS (Physical modelling, FM, VA, etc.), since ARX boards are whole synths.
I'm suspecting there are only two slots because ARX cards are entire synths. That data still have to be accessed by the rest of the unit, and there's only so much data that can be shuttled around. Besides, we may not see new ARX boards for another year or so. How long has it been since the last SRX board? Over two years?

Touchscreen! Touchscreen! Touchscreen! Touchscreen!
I'm gonna punch you in the neck.

I mean, it doesn't record audio directly to hard drive or Flash memory. You must reload the audio tracks to memory, which is a big NO NO for MIDI and Audio. Imagine loading 24 tracks of audio.... it will take forever.
You can't timestretch audio tracks/samples when they stream in realtime from disk (at least at the workstation DSP-level). Each project can store 50 songs, which is like the Fantom-X and MV-8x00—all samples are loaded at once. This lets you switch quickly from song to song. HOWEVER, if you don't have to switch songs live, simply create a new project for every song. 544MB of samples/audio tracks per song. Best of both worlds. And I was told that loading projects from USB 2.0 keys is almost as fast as a slow hard drive (they'd never put a 7200 or 10k RPM drive in a workstation). "Way faster than on the X" they said.

On computer DAW systems like (Sonar, etc.) the wave moves and it makes for editing that is faster and good for visual thinkers. If you are a listener then the process may not be too bad.
The screen redraws when recording audio are near-instantaneous. And the waveforms are pretty high-resolution in the Song Edit screen. They don't scroll. Scrolling is turned off by default in most DAWs.

[The Audacity Works]

will it have dedicated EQ on each track?
If you assign each part's insert FX to an EQ, yes. But then that defeats the purpose of having an FX on each part. If it's anything like the X, many of the FX types have some sort of simple tone control.

Will it have anologue functions like Oscillator sync, pwm, etc?
Couldn't check on that. I quickly spun through the patch edit screens and they looked to be very similar (at least function-wise) to the X.

will the loading times for samples etc be speeded up?
Yes.

will it have true 128 note polyphony and not 16 if you use heavy structure waveform,patches?
The Fantom-G has the same 4-stereo-tone structure as the other Fantoms. "True polyphony" depends on who you talk to. I don't think any of the S or X patches utilize all 4 stereo tones, at least not simultaneously.

will I be able to save one song with its own samples audio tracks?
Yes, if you save the song to its own project. Each project also stores its own 128 user Single patches, 64 Live Sets, and 64 Studio Sets.

will I be able to insert the expansion boards without the aid of a block and tackle and a small workforce and still get the base covered in scratches?
I assume so, because it was incredibly easy in my dad's Fantom-S88 (and I assume the X).

I see it only has 2 sets of stereo outputs! bummer.
Attempting to hit a price point, most likely.

24 tracks would make that 544 megs disappear like David Blain was using it Do i need to say anything else?
It's enough to record a 4 minute song with all 24 tracks playing at once. If you add the 16 internal parts and the 2 ARX parts, that's one busy-ass mix. I remember creating crazy tracks with 2MB of RAM. But I hear ya'.

What I don't understand is why in this day in age we only have a maximum 544 MB, when my ipod has 30 gig? What would be the logic behind this thinking in workstations?
Because when using an iPod, there's no need to trigger 128 songs simultaneously with 22 effects processors and realtime timestretch?

Okay some here have said "It's not a DAW" then why would they go as far as going to a rediculously 24 tracks if they aren't trying to market it as one?
When one creates a software DAW, they're building on the resources of Microsoft, IBM, Intel, Apple, and/or any number of third-party companies. Collectively, this is BILLIONS of dollars and MILLIONS of man-hours. An embedded OS (like that in all digital music gear) is optmized for specific processors, and absolutely, positively cannot be compared. Part of the reason the OASYS is so expensive is that Korg decided to incorporate a computer utilizing open-source technology. This is extremely difficult, results in all sorts of expensive technology licensing, and oftentimes, bugs and computer-related problems (like latency, DSP overloads, etc.) run rampant. The Korg guys seem to have done quite well, the Mackie guys (Digital X-Bus woes ), not so much.

The way I used to record before Logic, 544MB was enough to record dozens of songs. If you're recording 24 tracks all the way through, you're absolutely, positively in the market for Logic or ProTools.

The PC133 RAM thing is really weird tho'. I'm not sure why they stuck with it.

Roland should really go through, make any edits that they would like, add a few other questions that perhaps they have received, and post it on their site as a FAQ. And then send you a free Fantom G.
I agree!

[vonhaulshoven]

hey people,

I am looking for some time for a workstation.
Tested the motif XS, the big trouble with the XS is that alto it has a sequencer, there is NO step time input! (basicly I am a guitar player)
The first thing I want is a good alround midi sequencer.
No streaming audio? my sp-404 streams without any problem from compact flash, so why not that technic in the G6?
However I think for 90% that I buy in april a fantom G6!!

[manishkurup]

WOW ... I must say seems like a lot going on. Very exciting products in the keyboards/guitar effects department.

Love the Fantom-G (Or at least what I read about it). But then, Im not primarily a keyboard player, so probably my inputs/opinions dont count !!

I do own a Fantom X6, and love it to death. Wished it had more effects and accurately controllable EQ though. Vonhaulshoven, I use the Fantom X6 to sequence music (Moved to that workflow from Logic Express - DAW on MAC, dont think Im going back), and I really like the features for sequencing. It's not as easily useable as a DAW with a mouse and things like that, but it's still a one platform solution for making backing tracks quickly enough.

With the Fantom-G, everything that I felt was limiting in terms of creative-blocks have been solved. For example one Fx unit per track!!?? That's really cool, Have not heard a 16 track MIDI sequence on the Fantom-G with different effects to actually say one thing or another, but in my experience Roland delivers!! But then, I bought the Fantom-X6 at a time like this, since I knew that there would be something new coming out this year, cant afford the G or for that matter any other gear for another couple of years. Guess in 2-3 years, I will be a little better at playing the keys, and then I can afford the G (Since there'll be a new one coming out?) .

It does look like an exciting platform though, I was chagrined to hear that Roland has chosen to stay with the ancient PC133 memory, which means majority of the processing complex must be unchanged (I think the Fantom runs off a Hitachi SH-RISC architecture). Work with embedded firmware (Pretty famous company), and we once had to stay with an ancient technology, because we had (stupidly) gone to a fabrication process that was going to be outdated, and we had to buy thousands and thousands of pieces of an ASIC, and this had a similar cascading effect i.e. we had to stay with lots of outdated parts . Cant blame Roland for being stupid, I suppose? But does anyone know what's in the beast (Processor, OS?) this time?

Other than this, I think it's a pretty cool platform. I just love the sounds out of the Fantom X, and if what is being said is true, then the G must kick @$$ !!

But I guess, only time will tell ...

Remember ... it's all in the fingers. Eddie Van Halen (my hero) created 'brown sound' by reducing the bias voltage on the output stage of his valve-based guitar amp, and he created some phenomenal music for a very long time using just that .... (I think Im going to get my @$$ kicked for saying this !!)

I think, with the Fantom-G, we have much-much-much more than that Wouldnt you agree?

Peace ...

Manish

[sambasevam]

Igglethorpe,
I completely hear ya! I enjoy watching the drama unfold itself during NAMM, but I'm just that - an observer and no more.

I'm settled with my software. If anything, I'll be looking towards upgrading my 3.5 years old computer. I haven't unpacked the Fantom S from a not-so-recent gig yet. I have the remote LE25 right in front of me though.

That is not to say that I don't use hardware- quite the contrary. i just don't fancy buying a workstation at this day and age. I consider the Fantom S the end limit for a workstation. There's nothing better that's gonna come out that'll make my life easier.
'
jus my 2 cents.

[2TIM316]

I dream of the day when I have my gigging keyboard tucked away in a case except to be used on live gigs. But if I get a "G", there is no way it's not coming in my studio. Unless I get the 88 for the studio and the 61 or 76 for gigging.