i do have to agree with superchris in that to many, well at least some, people on here, Artemiy will never be wrong no matter what he does. i bet the instant before he locked the thread the ones on his side were all for it. now that we have the repetition thing brought up, though, can we ban the "roland secret agent" from these threads as well since that account is way overdue for a ban? it's the same repetitive "enough's enough" idea.
superchris has a point... there are some people who's nose is turning a bit brown and they make it obvious that it is, and they don't seem to be of the fact. But that does not mean that it's the entire team that is like that. I don't think all the mods are like that. (some might be, but definitly not all) Now some basic members seem to be more browners than others..maybe they are trying to be nice to you or agree with whatever it is you say so that maybe they'll have a chance to become a mod. those people know who they are and should be aware that they are being transparent and that most ppl see this. Like when they say, Thank you Art For being such a great forum leader and for giving us such a great forum, blah blah blah! When they lay it on so thick it's almost gross and disgusting! I feel embarrased for them and have to wash that taste out of my mouth with listerine! Those ppl don't only kiss booty once but every chance they get. Think about it, how many times haven't you heard from the same members how great you are and how greatful they are for this forum? Couldn't they say that once and move on?? I hope that by us saying this these brownies will feel shame and not do this so obviously and transparent as chris said. So don't act so surprised at chris's post, cus I'm sure, as smart as you are, even you know and notice that..and you also know who each and every one of them are.
Jim, I don't agree with everything you say, but keep bring it up if you feel the need. I don't consider what you are doing whinning... futile maybe, but not whining...The people who complain about you whinning are the whinners. You know why? cus they see what you say, and they don't want to hear it cus they spent all this money and they feel they have to protect their investment. As if they had something to do with the making of these machines. Have you ever noticed when you tell someone, "man that's a nice [fill in the blank] you have there." They say "thanks!" as if you were complimenting them or as if they had something to do with the manufacturing of whatever the product is? The correct answer shoud be either " Yes it is, and that was why I decided to get it." or " It's okay, I would have preferred if it was more this or that...." I never understood the thanks there.
On the other hand, I don't think you saying something here is gonna get the results you expect or would like... they didn't help me with the X when I put up ideas on this forum. If I were you I'd get a list of the things to say to Roland and send it directly to them on a daily basis. Annoy them. open up a few email adresses and send your concerns as a different customer. I don't know, something.. In the end, they are going to do whatever it is they want so they don't give anyone but Roland the credit.
Quinnx, You are the greatest concerned customer we have on this forum! YOu're so great..You're Awesome! I bow to you! My master! My most excellent organiser! So graceful! Stupendis! Can I be your helper?? ;-D
Hey Septimo you sent your reply while I was typing. I still remember you helping me out by telling me to download the 1000 free xv sounds when I was originally disappointed with the X sounds. Man you turned it around for me. That soundset was exactly what I needed to get hold of. So thanks for that.
Septimo I agree about how people need to go about their demands.
1. This forum is about people who own Roland gear helping others out who own Roland gear. It has no ties to Roland.
Over the last 3 years a lot of people have helped me dive deep into my x8 and get the most out of it. I'm still learning things 3 years later. So I'm thankful for Art having the foresight and persistence to start and maintain a forum like this along with all the help I've received from people here.
2. Art is not an employee of Roland!
3. If you want to make a stand this is not the place. I totally agree with you listing things you would like fixed (that is okay once or twice) but you must ring Roland, write letters and be persistent in your phone calls and letters to make a stand.
You really aren't helping out anyone by continuing to post your demands over and over again at this forum.
Let it rest here and pursue the appropriate means for getting something changed.
People that choose to respect a leader instead of bashing him should not be called transparent butt kissers, but whatever.
You see, Septimo, if you created a forum, I would not call you out at every chance I had and I would compliment you if I noticed others were giving you too hard a time about a forum that is YOURS.
I don't know if you were including me in your statement, but it does not matter. I just believe in respecting leaders, complimenting them when you can and giving them a chance to get things done without resorting to bashing so quickly.
Anyway...no disrespect to you or Quinnx or anyone.
I enjoy complaining about Roland as much as the next guy, but I really choose to leave Art out of it, even if he would make a decision I disagree with once in a while. It is best to look at the overall work of a person and not just SLAM them.
I didn't direct it to anyone in particular, I threw it out there and hoped it would catch the conscience of those guilty of what i stated. If it fits... you know? But not to anyone just to those who know it's them.
I don't see Jim including Art in his concerns. Art acted on his post and Jim reacted. he didn't bash him or anything. Not everything you don;t agree with is considered bashing.
I did not agree with a lot of things on the G when it surfaced and I got told I was bashing the G. I never bashed the G... There's a diference in saying the truth about something and bashing it. Now alot of ppl are starting to know better, now that the "New Gear High" has worn off and they are statring to say what I had said back then. But I won't get into that again.
I have respect towards those who show respect towards themselves. But if they don't respect themselves.... Again I'm not puting you or anyone in that bracket. I throw the whole thing up in the air and let things land where they may. And usualy they land where they are supposed to. We can try to fool others, but we can't fool ourselves... And those guilty usally sound off in defense..
I have to disagree. I don't own a G, but I discovered the inability of handling SMF's from this forum, not from the manual. While someone might say it's my duty to RDFM (read the f manual) BEFORE buying everything on the planet (Earth, not any of Art's ) I can counter that by Roland's OWN disclaimer about the "owner's manual bug". So I find the whiners to be quite useful, barring me from buying a G until the problem(s) get solved.
P.S. On a second though, I might even feel in debt and pay the whiners 50 Euros each, for helping me not wasting my money. They're at least as useful as Art, which helps in a more creative way
Happy with my X8, Parsifal.
After some deep thinking, shopping and a walk in the park, I now agree that the complaining here should be minimized.
This is not the forum to make demands and whine about customer support, because this is NOT a Roland site. This is a fan/user site.
We should only concentrate on user to user communication, help each other and share tips and tricks.
The demands and wishes for updates etc should be directed directly to Roland, not to this forum. Talking about the future development of products is obviously still a thing to discuss here.
The fact that some Roland employees come on down here and join us from time to time should be considered as a nice bonus.
What's sad is that usually only the 'whine threads' have replys when I reload/revisit this site. The creative threads rarely get replys.
If this forum would work well, it could easily pronounce user interests towards Roland in a smart, non-agressive way.
And in sharp contrast to The Audacity Works and others I'm not only confident, but absolutely sure that it *would* *not* be ignored by Roland, because many interested users gather here and they know that well.
I remind you: the whole situation only arises because the Roland central does not offer *any* feedback platform, and our experience with the local reps is that they are nice, but can't say or do anything not autorized by Roland. A very indirect and ineffective customer system in modern internet times.
I still regard our issue as completely well and justified.
What made it bad, was not that we dared asking for an update and insisting on a reminder until the problem is solved, with high priority.
What made it bad were all the ugly, offensive, pseudo-authoritarian reactions of people who share the same gear interest, and rather should have been supportive instead of pathetic.
I must be Very "Guilty", because I can even fool myself sometimes... LOL!!!!
Anyway, offering respect is a great habit.
I have had plenty of friends and family say that they respect only the respectful...Guess what?
They often respected no one!
Anyway, just a good habit, I think.
All kinds of people just can't wait to make someone look bad, so they can look good. That is a big habit in this world.
But, accentuating others good traits is much more productive and friendly. I'm sure that I am guilty of both at times.
Anyway, I am waxing way to philosophical for a music forum, but I really can't stand seeing people hurl insults at the anyone let alone the one who created this site.
a new hope!
After seeing how fast people replied to my question, i think we all need to start playing for the same team. Its gotta stop being "us" vs "them". We can all benifit from a os update, but it shouldnt be splitting the forum down to two sides, one that is happy and one that is angry about the update. Were all on the same team and shouldnt be arguing all the time. YES, we need an update, so lets focus on roland for that, not people in the forum. I know for myself ive been getting into petty debates that turn into personal attacks....Its just not getting us any further towards an update. Truce
PiaKnowGuy
Listen to - Pirates Done entirely on the X8!
) I can counter that by Roland's OWN disclaimer about the "owner's manual bug". So I find the whiners to be quite useful, barring me from buying a G until the problem(s) get solved. 
