No noise or delay between patches

[nsheldon]

Hi all.

Watermelon: Thanks for your feedback. The cause of the delay is not in question. From other discussions in this forum, it has been determined that the MFX changing that takes place during a Patch change is the cause of the delay. Yes, turning off MFX virtually eliminates Patch changing delays.

I personally don't have a problem with the delay as I don't perform live with my Fantom-X8. However, some people do and this delay can be a problem for them. The delay is, in my opinion, a minor issue.

However, the fact that Roland has not only acknowledged the problem but offered to replace the motherboard of the affected units free of charge indicates a more serious problem than a simple delay in Patch changing. A big enough problem, in fact, that they are willing to pay both labor and parts costs to replace all motherboards of affected systems. This means that they are concerned about legal costs (Class Action law suits) and believe that the costs of replacing the hardware at no charge to the customers is less expensive than paying legal fees and settlement fees (as well as bad publicity).

The informal research we are doing here is not to prove that a problem exists (Roland has already determined that a problem does exist), but rather to help determine how many people are affected and to what extent and to get an overall idea of which serial numbers exhibit this problem. Additionally, it serves to demonstrate the differences between an unaffected Fantom-X and an affected Fantom-X.

Regards,

Nathan Sheldon
http://www.nathansheldon.com/

[nsheldon]

Hello all.

Still Learning sent me the WAV sample of his Fantom-X8 playing back the SVQ. The link and his X8 information is below.

WAV Example: http://www.nathansheldon.com/fantom-x8/ ... R90346.wav
Model: FANTOM-X8
Serial #: ZR90346
OS: 1.01

Regards,

Nathan Sheldon
http://www.nathansheldon.com/

[fanoftom]

Hi Nathan!

I have performed the test and saved the .wav file. Unfortunately I seem to be doing something wrong in sending it to you. When I click on your link and paste it into my email, a message says you do not exist!! Any ideas?

All the best!

[abcd1234]

In agreement with Nathan, when Roland is doing this replacement for free it means that there "IS" a serious problem.

@Watermelon, have you ever tried to do this thing on Triton Extreme while are effects are enabled? I did last week, and the delay was almost zero. I will be happy if one of our FS users do this test too, so we can hear the difference between FS and FX.

Also, I feel you are saying that the only bugy Fantom-X is your friend's! (no offense). But most of us have that terrible noise too. I, myself, am really worried about my monitors. If one of that cracks happen while I'm playing loud I should through my monitors into trashcan! Actually I have had a similar experience - before I bought my fantom - with my poor Infinity studio monitors (peace upon him!!!).

And the last thing, if you want, I can record something live with my Fantom to demonstrate how it affects live performance. Nathan's SVQ is just for having a standard measuring unit for comparing different fantoms not to say "look! I can't do this on stage!".

BTW, my Fantom-X 7 serial number is:

ZS01119

Cheers,

Sam

March 14th 1984
Music student at Dalhousie
Fantom-X 7

[Still Learning]

Hi everyone, Here is a compilation of most of our responses so far. Sorry if I missed any. We have yet to get a Fantom S reply.

Roland Corp. "fault when switching sound” Service Note number: 101811 Problem Identification

Owner: nsheldon
Model: FANTOM-X8
Serial #: ZR90368
Operating Sys: 1.03
Problem Confirmed: Yes

Owner: Still Learning
Model: FANTOM -X8
Serial: ZR90346
Operating Sys: 1.01
Problem Confirmed: Yes

Owner: Vintage Chyld
Model: FANTOM-X8
Serial #: ZS53397
OS: 1.03
Problem Confirmed: No (patch switching delay time measurably shorter than above units)

Owner: Fanoftom
Model: FANTOM –X?
Serial: ??????
Operating Sys: ???
Problem Confirmed: ?? (Fanoftom has had hardware replaced in his unit)
“…eliminated the noise and there is hardly any delay switching patches…”
“…Roland said the earlier fantom x was sluggish because of the extra graphics”
Everyone following this thread is waiting for Fanoftom’s WAV file!!!

Owner: John01W
Model: FANTOM –XR
Serial: ??????
Operating Sys: ???
Problem Confirmed: YES
“…Ya, I wish my XR didn't have this problem. Through the pa, it's quite deafening at times, can't have that.”

Owner: sam_vafaei
Model: FANTOM –X7
Serial: ZS01119
Operating Sys: ???
Problem Confirmed: YES

Owner: Asafar
Model: FANTOM –X?
Serial: ??????
Operating Sys: ???
Problem Confirmed: YES (Returned Unit)

Owner: JCtheMC
Model: FANTOM –X?
Serial: ??????
Operating Sys: ???
Problem Confirmed: YES (…”hey is this the spring reverb type sound when you change patches??? its really annoying”)

Owner: EuroFantom
Model: FANTOM –X6
Serial: ??????
Operating Sys: ???
Problem Confirmed: ??? “…in os 1.03 the delay was significantly reduced and a lot less reverb noises between patches”

Owner: Mexico
Model: FANTOM –X6
Serial: ZS01491 H
Operating Sys: ???
Problem Confirmed: YES

---------------------------
Learning to play like Sponge Bob !

[nsheldon]

Hey all.

Thanks, Still Learning, for compiling all that data into one post. That helps to put this into perspective.

fanoftom: Sorry for the difficulties. You cannot click on any of my links in any of the posts to send me a file. You have to e-mail the file to me as an attachment. This means that you'll have to use an e-mail program such as Outlook Express, Outlook, Eudora, or Mac OS X Mail and send me an e-mail with the .wav file attached in the message. My e-mail address is

me (at) nathansheldon (dot) com

Replace the (at) with the @ symbol and the (dot) with a . (period). I write it this way in the post so automated spammer processes don't grab my e-mail address and send me more spam.

Regards,

Nathan Sheldon
http://www.nathansheldon.com/

[EuroFantom]

hey still learning i ran the test i have os 1.03 the problem is confirmed although btw watermelon very valid comment besides we have 16 tracks to deal with and how many practical aplications are there for swicthing patches on the fly on the same channel and playing through the change? not many that i can think of... (remeber the time sync bug and how so many started saying it was a lack of cpu power..) i say give the software more time to develop...

[nsheldon]

Hi EuroFantom.

Just to reiterate, we aren't (well, at least I'm not) trying to prove the existence of the problem, nor are we (am I) attempting to assess the impact, negative or otherwise, of this "bug." This is simply a data gathering and compilation venture to find how many people's Fantom-X's demonstrate a noticeable delay difference where the only difference between the Fantom-X's are the new motherboard. The fact that there is a measurably longer delay in older Fantom-X8's compared to newer Fantom-X8's both using the same version of the OS, is proof that there is more than software at work here. This is not subject to interpretation. To say that this problem is resolvable entirely in software is false (our demonstration here has proven this), and Roland's decision to freely replace the motherboard further supports this conclusion. If Roland could circumvent a problem with a software revision, they certainly would do so as it is MUCH cheaper to pay an engineer to fix a bug than replace hundreds of motherboards and pay technicians to do so.

This is not to say that the OS does not need revising. There are still numerous software bugs that are certainly addressable via a software revision. This particular problem, however, is not one of them.

Regards,

Nathan Sheldon
http://www.nathansheldon.com/

[Still Learning]

Hi everyone, Hopefully here is a better compilation of our responses so far. EuroFantoms oper. sys is now included. We have yet to get a Fantom S reply.

Roland Corp. "fault when switching sound” Service Note number: 101811 Problem Identification

Owner: Model Serial Oper. Sys. Problem
nsheldon F-X8 ZR90368 1.03 Yes
still learning F-X8 ZR90346 1.01 Yes
vintage chyld F-X8 ZS53397 1.03 No?
fanoftom F-X? ?????? ??? ???
john01W F-XR ?????? ??? Yes
sam_vafaei F-X7 ZS01119 ??? Yes
Asafar F –X? ?????? ??? Yes (Returned Unit)
JCtheMC F –X? ?????? ??? Yes
EuroFantom F –X6 ?????? 1.03 Yes
Mexico F–X6 ZS01491 ??? Yes


---------------------------
Learning to play like Sponge Bob !

[Still Learning]

***Formatting change (trying tabs instead of spaces between data columns)

Hi everyone, Hopefully here is a better compilation our responses so far. EuroFantoms oper. sys in now included. We have yet to get a Fantom S reply.

Roland Corp. "fault when switching sound” Service Note number: 101811 Problem Identification

Owner: Model Serial Oper. Sys. Problem
nsheldon F-X8 ZR90368 1.03 Yes
still learning F-X8 ZR90346 1.01 Yes
vint. chyld F-X8 ZS53397 1.03 No?
fanoftom F-X? ?????? ??? ???
john01W F-XR ?????? ??? Yes
sam_vafaei F-X7 ZS01119 ??? Yes
Asafar F –X? ?????? ??? Yes (Returned)
JCtheMC F –X? ?????? ??? Yes
Eu.Fantom F –X6 ?????? 1.03 Yes
Mexico F–X6 ZS01491 ??? Yes


---------------------------
Learning to play like Sponge Bob !

[abcd1234]

If that helps, my OS is 1.03

Sam

March 14th 1984
Music student at Dalhousie
Fantom-X 7

[nsheldon]

Hi all.

Still Learning: Thanks for all your help. Yea, tabs and spaces are ignored in HTML so it won't make any difference which you use in your post.

All: It's great to see such participation and team work in this relatively minor data gathering effort. Thanks everyone!

Regards,

Nathan Sheldon
http://www.nathansheldon.com/

[shakil]

WOW....

This is really interesting.... I am sure there's more to this board replacement than the patch change noise issue.

I will have mine fixed soon..!

--------------------
Remember that there are only 3 MFX + 1 Reverb + 1 Chorus in Fantom-S/X and you have to share them across 16 parts (patches) in a song.

live a musical life

[Sami Cokar]

nsheldon: My Fantom S exhibits this issue. I've sent you the wave file.

Roland Fantom S61
S/N ZQ70218
O/S 1.0.8

[asafar]

I got another FX today.
S# ZS12377 OS 1.0
the patch delay is there and only when I switch off MFX1 and 2 that I get 0 Delay.
I couldn't find the date it was manufactured.

Midi East Music