VA1, Ion, Virus C, V-Synth, others…

[FatBoyJim]

During and after winter NAMM 2004 there was some excitement about the Kurzweil VA1 around here. Is anyone here still interested? The specs seem very impressive to me although I do wish that it were at least 32 voice like the Virus C. The price might end up being too high for my liking as well as this always seems to be the case with Kurzweil for me.
There has been some excitement about the Ion, on and off, around here too. What’s the latest verdict on it now that it appears to have had many, if not all, of its problems fixed? Lately the Ion seems to be the VA of choice over at Harmony Central but that mainly seems to be for the low price. Some do swear that it is the best sounds VA ever though.
Virus C is the panicle of VA’s to some around here and elsewhere. Why exactly is it so much better than all the others? I am hoping for some kind of Virus D to substantiate the rumors that have been floating around for some time.
I am guessing that there is going to be a V-Synth 2. Does this interest anybody? I like the V-Synth but don’t know much about it and am a little unclear as to which would be a better choice between a VA and the V-Synth. Obviously they are very different but either one would probably give me the synth programming that I am looking for.
Sorry to do a thread like this but I am bringing all of this up because for some reason I have been trying to give myself GAS lately. This is totally unlike me, as I hate to part with my money but for some reason this has been the case. I also kind of miss programming sounds on my old Juno 106. I don’t miss the Juno 106 itself but I do miss having a slider or a button for every parameter and being able to take some real control over the sound very easily. If VA's are a limited as the Juno 106 and don't have a whole lot more to offer in terms of different sounds than the Juno 106 had then that right there would probably turn me off of VA's. Admittedly, I hope I don’t buy any of these but for some reason I have an itch to do so lately. Do you want to suggest something else along these lines in an effort to really give me GAS? Any thoughts as this could really help me?

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Check out Lawrence's Fantom-S site at http://fantom.wilkesworld.co.uk/
Thank you for this site Artemio!
Be sure to avoid my posts as user SumDumGuy on the Harmony Central forums as well.

[MuzikB]

Clavia Nord Lead 2X!

[FatBoyJim]

Hey, looky there, a response. Thanks for your response; when I get the time I will check it out. I checked out the Ion the other day and was very impressed with its sound and for what you get for the price it is pretty/very nice. I think I would prefer to pay more and get more though. I think that I want at least 16 voices as both the keyboards that I had that had less than this had polyphony issues that really annoyed. I also played with the V-Synth again and I am still very impressed with it as well. I flip flop on which I would like more, a V-Synth or a virtual analog. Both would be great but I don’t think that I will be able to justify both for my already expensive hobby. I know that I don’t want the V-Synth 1 but my guess is that there is going to be a V-Synth 2 and I am thinking that we will hear about it a summer NAMM.

___________________________________________________________
Check out Lawrence's Fantom-S site at http://fantom.wilkesworld.co.uk/
Thank you for this site Artemio!
Be sure to avoid my posts as user SumDumGuy on the Harmony Central forums as well.

[Artemiy]

FBJ, here are my thoughts on the VA synths I know (V-Synth, Virus C and Nord Lead 3), although I didn't play any of them.

V-Synth: it has something other synth don't (and won't!) have: VariPhrase. Nothing can manipulate your samples as this technology. Also, it has hecka COSM effects not available in other synths, and up to 2 FX can be used inside the synthesis process, not "at the end".

Virus C: probably the warmest-sounding VA synth. Very flexible. Has lots of voices (32), up to 98 simultaneous FX, a 32 band vocoder. Nice thing is that it's oscillators are always oscillating, like in a real analogue synth. Good distorion/saturation stuff in oscillators.

Nord Lead 3: amazingly useful rotary knobs w/LEDs that get set into needed positions when you switch stored patches. Mostl;y like Virus C in synsthesis. Has a KILLER unison mode with 120 detuned voices! 4-operator FM synthesis. One nice feature is analogue-style exponential envelopes. Interesting distortion effects in oscillator section.

Both the Nord 3 and Virus C are very flexible in synthesis, definitely much more flexible than the V-Synth. They have more knobs and buttons, V-Synth is more LCD-intensive, thus less analoguish in this control area. But the V-Synth, however, has COSM (including a 303 filter), VariPhrase, and now can even pretend to be a D-50.

I'd get all three. They're so killer and so different... I'd be confused if I was to choose.


Artemio.

[MuzikB]

If you want at least 16 voices than the Nord Lead 2X, Nord Lead 3, the Virus C, and Virus Classic are your options.

In my opinion, there's no need to have a Nord Lead 3 and a Virus C. The similarities in sound and abilities should warrant one or the other. I went for the Lead 2X because it IS the distinctive Nord(sound) and augmented with a Virus C since it has audio inputs.

The V-Synth may have an advertised polyphony of 24, but realisticly, it's between 4 and 16. Of coarse this all depends on what facilities you use to program your sounds. It's kind of a specialty and I wouldn't go for it for it's VA facilities. Compared to other VA's on the market, it's rather weak. It's strength lies in the Variphrase manipulation of samples.

Considering what I have, if I could only have 2 synths, they would be the Fantom X6 and the Nord Lead 2X. Later, as a third synth I would add the V-Synth.

Don't let the lack of effects on the Nord sway you away. Definately check it out.

Blake

Current Synth Kit List: (Provided to help with questions)
Roland Fantom X6
Roland V-Synth
Access Virus C
Clavia Nord Lead 2X
Viscount/Oberheim OB12

[swandiver]

Hey MuzikB, I was never able to find an OB-12 anywhere to demo, and have heard mixed things reading numerous reviews. What does it offer you that the combination you already have doesn't? (Especially since you have several top-end VA's already)?

[MuzikB]

Hey Swan.

Despite all the negative stuff said about the OB-12, here are the reasons it's still around in my arsenal.

1. It is the only other Hardware synth that's capable of the Super Saw waveform, and with varying degress of it's waveshape.

2. It is the only hardware synth capable of the Super Triangle waveform, also with varying degree of its' waveshape.

3. The hybrid 2/6 oscillator setup. This setup enables you to tailor your oscillator waveshape.

4. The ultra smooth filters. I really wish it had audio inputs.

5. Unique Sound

Given the above and take into account the addition of a Nord Modular G2 Engine and you should start to realize the MuzikB Madness.

My G2 Engine ships on thursday.

Current Synth Kit List: (Provided to help with questions)
Roland Fantom X6
Roland V-Synth
Access Virus C
Clavia Nord Lead 2X
Viscount/Oberheim OB12

[2TIM316]

Sorry for responding so late to a thread that was started over 3 months ago, but here's my 2 cents:

The Alesis ION (and Micron if it ever shows up) are by far the closest sounding to "real" analog of all the virtual analog hardware synths.

From discussions on other bulletin boards, it looks like the Kurzweil VA-1 has been put on hold or dropped, as a result of the company going through some financial challenges. That's too bad, since it did look real promising.

Hope that helps.

[tarquin pedals]

nobody has mentioned the ks-series , i personally love these
and they are a great price. well worth checking out

er

[abstract]

you should go get an alesis ion right now. they are the best sounding and very easy to program and are inexpensive. i was at guitar center the other day and they were selling them for $599 plus a $50 dollar rebate. anyone who doesn't get one of these at that price in my opinion has got to be crazy. with that and my fantom-s i can do just about anything

smolenski

[Summa]

@MuzikB

1. + 2 That's not true, the NL3 has a Unison Mode that don't touch the polyphonie of the synth, that way it's quite similar to a supersaw/supersqare or whatever waveform you chose mode...

4. The filter sounds imho quite analytic...

3. + 5. Uniquely digital. I prefere using a real digital synth with even more ways to create your own waveforms...

Virus C and NL3 have a totaly different kind of sound...

G2 is quite a Synth!

@FatBoyJim

The Virus C isn't that much better than the rest, but it has the advantage of quite good sounding LP Filters... very nice...

@tarquin pedals

For my ears the novation stuff is pretty thin sounding, simply turn the FX off and one should hear...

@NL3

My favourite VA, easy to use, fine UI for beginners, I had one for testing...

Noone mentioned the mQ, Q... OK, Waldorf isn't existing anymore, but they made some fine synths...

If someone is after real analog sounds, it's good to take a look at Andromeda, Sunsyn, Evolver or its new Poly version...

@Artemio

Most VAs are hardly as complex as the Fantom, mostly less envelopes with less stages, less LFOs ... They mostly have better sounding filters/Oszillators and functions like FM/PWM and Sync the Fantom can't do. Other than that due to the knobs they can be handled more intuitively...


Embrace the Aliasing...

[DIGITAL SCREAMS]

Hi everyone!!

This is my first post on this site (Is there a new member introduction thread here?)....and Im currently waiting for my Fantom X8 to arrive.

A little about me ---> Im 25 yrs old and Im at University reading Psychology. Ive spent an aweful lot of my student loan on synthesizers! Ive been programming synths for about 3 years now and in my spare time im a sound designer. Check out my signiture to view my current kit list.

I did own a Clavia Nord 2 and 3 for a while but I sold them. With reference to a point MuzikB raised.......I am of the opinion that the Clavia N3 and Virus sound sufficiently different to warrant both in a setup. The Virus has a warmer, darker tone than any of the Nords. The Nord is capable of making bright, transparant sounds. In my opinion, they represent the perfect VA partnership.

As far as the Alesis ION is concerned, its a fine synth for sensible money. Personally I dont like the tone of it....the truth is I dont like any VA's really (I use the Virus to experiment with creative ideas). I prefer the tone of true analog...hence my kit list reflects this.

I dont agree with 2TIM316's suggestion that the ION is the most 'analog' sounding simulated attempt. To my ears, the Virus still pips it. I cant explain why this is the case. However, when you compare the Virus to a Prophet or Jupiter.......you then realise that VA still has a long way to go (if your in doubt as to the validity of this claim check out my Jupiter 8 mp3). If the concept of VA is still around in 10 years time I wonder what it will sound like!

If any of you want to hear sounds that ive made, plz email me: thesynthwizard@hotmail.com and Ill send you some mp3's. Warning: Some of my mp3's are 16 megs!!!

C u guys around

DS

Sound Designer

* Analog synths - Jupiter 8, Prophet 5, Pro-One, Korg Mono/Poly

* Digital/VA - Access Virus KC, CZ3000.

* Workstations - Roland Fantom X8, Korg Triton Studio 88

[Artemiy]

Hello all.

Now that the V-Synth stands in my studio I can add some truth to this post.

Of course, the VA section doesn't sound as close to real analogue as I would prefer, but still it sounds pretty nice. The TB-303 filter does a great work here.

Also, the V-Synth should really be discussed out of the competition - because it is a new type of synth, it is not like the rest (MS2k, Viruses, Nord Leads...). There are many new features and concepts that this synth introduces for the first time, and they are:

[1] The synth itself is not only a VA, but it features a VariPhrase-powered sample engine that can be used in synthesis just like the VA waveforms - e.g. in RM, FM, ERM synthesis.

[2] Instead of usual low-pass/high-bass/band-bass/etc. filters (whicjh are there too), it has a whole set of different ones like comb filter, side band filters, dynamic and dual filters, 303 filter as well as wave shaper, compressor, limiter, pitch shifter, overdrive/distortion... and these are not MFX, but polyphonic filters!

[3] Side-band filters: these filters, depending on the width and other settings, remove a given amount of the signal spectrum that is not a harmonic of the base note frequency. With these filters (there are two different ones in the V: 1st order and 2nd order), you can create really new sounds, like creating cool synth, bass, pad and string sounds out of noise, and creating vocoder-like buzzing rhythmical sounds out of drum loops.

[4] The whole VariPhrase thing is magic. The feature of controlling the playback of any sound in realtime by the TTP or D-beams is fantastic, and the waveform freeze function is unbelievable.

[5] With the envelope ring modulatin you virtually get a vocoder effect - you can control the level envelope of a carrier wave with a modulator, e.g. let the saw wave pulsate according to a drum loop wave.

[6], [7], [..] I stop desribing the new things in the V-Synth here or I will end late at night. It is a truly new type of synth.



Artemio.

[Steph3dfx]

My heart goes to the Virus KC.
The first time I tried this synth I was completly blown away and felt that magic musician rush.
Similar to what I felt with the M1 in 1989. (award for the bigest rush I ever had on a musical inst.)
(I also had a rush with the Fantom-S)

The KC have is own signature but I love it, the keybed felt good and the look of that synth is hot. Unfortunatly it's too expensive for me,

The IOn would be in my price range, and is a better VA chameleon compared to the Virus.
However the 8 notes poly and the lack of reverb/delay is a big letdown for me.
I'll wait for the Ion mark2.