I present the ultimate Live X6!

[tshapiro]

What do you call an X6 with a built in 4 channel mixer which can be routed to from the internal mixer output assignments? And, what do you call an X6 that you can have individual volume pots for each output assignment? What do you call and X6 that you can adjust performance layers with volume pots? You'd call it 2 things... the Ultimate Live X6 and you'd call in Mine

I'll put together a live video demonstration when I get the time. If you are interested in this mod let me know.

[tshapiro]

The new mixer output on the rear panel...

[tshapiro]

I've been using this board in 2 modes:

1) Each of up to 4 layers in a sound patch are adjustable by each knob.

2) For solo and my accustic duo... Sequenced drums controlled by knob 4, keyboard bass part controlled by knob 3 (meaning I play this part), knobs 1/2 control lead parts either layered or split.

I would post the internal wiring except we're considering selling the mod and I'm not sure if that would cause me an issue. So for now, you just get to see the surfaces.

These are real pots, not midi. So, what you see is what you get. Couldn't be any more intuitive on stage

[tzoid]

Impressive

[venkiee]

tshapiro,

That looks a real professional mod. We would be very happy if you could post a youtube video and technical information of the mod job..

Cheers mate !! you rock..!!

[chubbylove]

I would definately buy that mod from you. Where can I email you?

[Andy Keys]

tshapiro,

So the pots are volume controls for the physical outputs 1,2,3 & 4, rather than MIDI pots for performance layers 1,2,3 & 4, right?

Can I ask what the mixer output you added is for? Is that a combined output of all 4?

Does the modification bypass the individual outputs?

I'm intruiged by this.

Regards
Andy

[howardS]

I think you may have voided the warrantee

On a serious note, I am interested in what you are doing here but as Andy said, how does this benefit us over a MIDI setup. You seem excited about the mod but aren't these functions that could managed with the realtime controllers? If the reason is that you want extra controllers then why not set it up with MIDI and get an external controller?

[Andy Keys]

I understand the desire to have the extra controllers built into the single unit.

Between the SH-32 and the BCF2000 there isn't even room for a coffee cup or a pencil on my X-7 anymore, and in live use it means more cases and cables and more setting up time.

Not that I'm considering buying one, but those 8 sliders on the Fantom G are long overdue!

Andy

[wudsiba]

Wow! I love to see different modifications. I havent seen many mods of the Fantoms. Great job! I'd love to see a video just showing these things in action.

[tshapiro]

Why not midi? First off, external devices mean more gear and a lot more setup. Second, many midi setups are not automated and will not move to the current settings when you switch patches. This can be a real pain if you're trying to make a slight adjustment to a patch you just called up. Furthermore, with midi, you must slide the slider until it 'catches' the current setting before it becomes active. With the setup I designed, if you want channel (or rather bus) 3 louder than just turn it up - done. It's very intuitive.

Routing of volume pots? The existing 4 outputs work like stock. The new output is the summation or mix of the 4 new buses that were created by tapping into the existing 4 outputs. Since I wanted to eliminate the need for an external mixer, the new output is the stereo feed mix of the 4 output pots. This eliminates the need for additional power and patch cords going to a 4 channel external mixer. With this setup, if I'm just sitting in for the night, I just plug the 1 board in and go - it's cool. No need to wire up external mixers etc. Solo and duo shows can be quick setup and go.

[wudsiba]

Just curious, were you able to get schemadics or a service manual, or did you figure the thing out yourself? The reason I ask is that I would like to replace the stop, rec, and play buttons in the sequencer section. I won't even attempt if it takes a professional touch (or if I'm going to shock myself to death.) Thanks

[howardS]

tshapiro, I agree that you want as little gear as possible for these one off gigs. I also think it is way cooler to program one board really well and extract as much as possible out of it rather than to need a roomful of gear. For this reason, I have a song file that is full of RPS patterns which are applied to whatever patch I assign to a part in my performance.

I believe that you can have one RPS pattern that tweaks the selected patch to have the output of each of the four tones respond to one of the assignable knobs. In this way we can already do the first function on the Fantom with the Realtime Controllers and RPS. So instead of loading a patch and selecting Mode 1 you load a patch and hit the right RPS button which you can assign to a pad.

As far as Mode 2 of your device, isn't this essentially doing the same thing that the four realtime controllers are doing when in mixer mode of a performance. Controller 1 adjust the volume of part 1, Controller 2 does Part 2...and so on. The only difference I see is that you can perhaps have a number of parts going to output 1 and other to output 2 but I don't think the Fantom has a mixer mode that only deals with the four individual outputs alone. I am just not sure that I would ever really use that function. If I have a layer I adjust my volume by part, not by output channel.

Don't get me wrong, I think this is very cool that you have gone in and made hardware modifications as this perhaps reminds people that we can perhaps do custom work on these synths but I guess I am wondering how these other ways that I suggested failed you before you decided to just build the internal mixer. I personally am still looking for a way to adjust the synth section of the workstation without adjusting the volume of audio that is going through the audio inputs.

[tshapiro]

You are essentially right but I think you're missing some of the subtle but important differences. First off, I go through way too many songs with my different bands to spend a lot of time programming up with RPS. Next, if you've got 150+ songs in your song list, trying to remember all the RPS commands that you've programmed is a challenge. I suppose it would be a challenge even for those with 40-50 songs which most pros have if not many more. Next, since I regularly organize my songs in Live mode, jumping back and forth to Mix mode just to tweak a volume is pretty clumbsy. And, yes, I know you can create shortcuts but in my live playing I've inadvertantly over-written the shortcut back to live mode many times. I just don't have the time to deal with that during a performance. If I want the strings to come up for a short part, I just reach over, bring them up, bring them back down again, done... no programming, no shortcuts, no RPS hits to insensative pads to trigger of a volume change. No scrolling around the mixer screen to get to the part I need to change volume for.

I suppose if I were a dedicated keyboard player all that might be workable. But, I'm not... I'm a performer. I sing and play and connect with the audience. I need be able to just reach down and play and tweak with minimal bother. Much more than that I don't have time for if I'm going to stay connected with my audience. So, I guess it would be fair to say that this mod is good for someone who doesn't want to get into programming, switching modes, etc. and just wants to play and tweak old school style.

[howardS]

tshapiro, with respect to Mode 1 I am saying you can write one RPS pattern to set this up. I use 50 or so RPS patterns in my main song file. Then I have many different performances with the effects and parts set up the way I want. Then I use the same song file and RPS to trigger the splits, or manipulate effects or whatever else I want to change with RPS. So, it is one additional RPS pattern that I would need to load in which would take care of Mode 1.

As I said before, I respect what you have done here and think that you are not trying to sell us something here or else you would have posted this in the marketplace section. The issue here for me is whether there is an easy way to do this on every patch you load and I think there is if you are prepared to write one RPS pattern. I don't ever play in patch mode anymore and cant think of any time when I would want to do that and then adjust the 4 tones the way you say we can do it in Mode 1 of your mod. I think most synth users work in performance mode when they are building layers but everyone has their own style. In your many many songs are you using the synth in performance mode or patch mode?