Group the zones ?

[CJ]

Hi all,

I have another question (couldn't find the answer), since I am planning to buy the Fantom (I used Fantom X a lot in the past before my Motif XS, but I come back now :-) .

Here it is (for a live gig situation in a band) :

Scene is for example: Frank Sinatra medley
16 zones: per zone an instrument /tone
Also per zone assigned key ranges etc.
Some zones may layer each other partially

I'd like to know this:
Zones 1 to 4 are partially layered, split, etc
Because those 4 zones belong to one of the Sinatra songs in the medley

Zones 5 to 10 have another instrument setup together etc. Because of the next Sinatra song

Also 11 to 16 have their setup

Is it possible to somehow 'group' zone 1-4 (but also a group of zone 6-10)?

So that each time I switch between the Sinatra songs I get the right zones with the assigned instrument setup etc.

Am I thinking in the right way about scenes and zones?

Hope my question is clear.

Thank you in advance.

[melvinhare]

Not sure about the Zones and Scenes but are the Keyboard Switch Groups mentioned at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cp1FuZh ... dex=5&t=0s any good to you ?

[CJ]

YES thank you Melvin !

This was exactly what I was looking for, and also nice to see 'our good old Roland-friend' Ed Diaz again !

I was just wondering if it is possible to change the name of the ' switch group' , so instead of ' Group 7' you can change the name/save it as ' (*insert a name*) ' .

[mostinif]

Hi. Yes, you can group zones and select those using PADs, but AFAIK layers and splits are a scene attributes. In case you need different keyboard layouts involving layers and splits, the way is create every layout with tones and splits/Layers in differents scenes and group it using scenes chain.

Also Ed Diaz done a great YT vid showing this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdIYbcR1J90
BRGDS

[pianoman41]

I was just wondering if it is possible to change the name of the ' switch group' , so instead of ' Group 7' you can change the name/save it as ' (*insert a name*) ' .

As you have learned, the keyboard switch groups using pads will accomplish what you want. You cannot rename the group, but when you select the Scene you are using you can press "Edit" on the screen and then press Memo at the bottom and add a note such as "Pad 7 = 1st tune name, Pad 8 = 2nd tune name, etc." and then save the Scene. When you recall the scene, the Memo will show up under the Scene name and if you use Scene Chain it will show up in large print under the Scene name. Not quite what you want but a workaround I use.

[FGM]

What I cannot understand is that after grouping zones in the keypad, there is no way to specify which zone will be the active one, the one that will be affected by the selection switches... the effects....etc.

You have to press one key in the pad [step 1], then activate the 1-8 or 9-16 zone switch [step 2], and finally select the active zone [step 3]...

And you are committed to do it for as many groups you have made !!!!

[pianoman41]

What I cannot understand is that after grouping zones in the keypad, there is no way to specify which zone will be the active one, the one that will be affected by the selection switches... the effects....etc.

You have to press one key in the pad [step 1], then activate the 1-8 or 9-16 zone switch [step 2], and finally select the active zone [step 3]...

And you are committed to do it for as many groups you have made !!!!

Whatever one is selected when you save the Scene for that group will be the active one when you switch the group. I just tried it on mine. For one grouping I have Zone 1 the active one and then when I switch groupings with the Pads to the second grouping I have Zone 3 active. Even if I change it manually, when I press the pad it reverts back to the saved active zone.

[FGM]

Thanks for your help, pianoman41.
It was early February when I tried what you say after much thought because I didn't believe it couldn't be done and I thought perhaps it would just be another undocumented behaviour... but it didn't work at all.
After saving each group with the desired zone activated, pressing key pads made the very first zone in the switch group as the active one, regardless of the one being active when previously saved.
In the end I was committed to change the order of zones so as to have the one wanted as active as the first within each group. But it is a nuisance since grouping of zones becomes a nightmare when many zones are common to many switch groups.
This results in the need for new scenes.... thanks to the ability to sustain voices while switching scenes....but then there is no way to record the song...

Didn't try again with new updates as I found nothing about it...
Nevertheless, I will check again and see...and will let you know.

[FGM]

No, it doesn't work.
Version 1.6 Build 01.19
A pity.

I have selected 16 zones.
Made 4 Switch group as follows:
1....zones 1,2,3,4 with zone 2 active.
2... zones 5,6,7,8 with zone 6 active.
3...zones 9,10,11,12 with zone 10 active
4...zones 13,14,15,16 with zone 14 active.

Scene saved after editing each group. Once done, another scene was chosen and then the one to test selected again.

Press keypad 1.... and zones 1,2,3,4 are selected, with 1 active, not 2.
Press keypad 2...and zones 5,6,7,8 are selected with 5 active, not 6.

And the same for the rest. Selection of zones is ok, but the active one is always the first zone assigned within the group.

[FGM]

I have tried another thing and the results are even funnier.

The selection of the active zone, as said before, goes to the first zone in the group provided there are no common zones in the groups, as in my previous post.

If some zones are common, the active zone is KEPT for the one in common.

See:
Group 1 with zones 1.2.3.4. Zone 2 requested as active.
Group 2 with zones 4,5,6,7,8. Zone 5 requested as active.
Group 3 with zones 8,9,10,11,12. Zone 9 Requested as active.

Press 1...zones 1,2,3,4 selected but zone 1 is active, not 2.
Press 2...zones 4,5,6,7,8 selected but zone 4 is active, not 5.
Press 3...zones 8,9,19,11,12 selected, but 8 active, not 9.
PRESS 2 AGAIN....4,5,6,7.8 SELECTED BUT 8 REMAINS ACTIVE, NOT 5 AS REQUESTED AND NOT 4 AS PREVIOUSLY FOR BEING FIRST IN THE GROUP.
Press 1..zones 1,2,3,4 selected but zone 1 is active, not 2.
Press 2...zones 4,5,6,7,8 selected but zone 4 is active, not 5.
Press 1...zones 1,2,3,4 selected BUT ZONE 4 REMAINS ACTIVE, NOT 2, NOR 1.

In a nutshell....workflow hard to understand.

Basically, the first zone within a group will be selected as the active zone.
If another group is selected, the active zone will change and be the first in the new group unless you are coming from a group with a zone in common that has already been selected as the active one for being the first, in which case there is no change and the active zone is kept.

.

[pianoman41]

Interesting. Now going back and looking at my few Scenes that have it (I don't use grouping that often) you are right--the first Zone of each group is the active one. Luckily for me, when I set mine up that's how the Zones fell so I assumed it was because I saved it that way.

[FGM]

Another issue with the zones assigned to the key pad is that while this is great when performing, it turns useless while recording, since the first selected group will be the one being recorded...no change of zones is allowed while recording is in progress.

If you play with both hands at a high tempo and want to introduce four new voices, four new zones, you cannot make it by moving the volume sliders of zones 2, 5, 8 and 14, so I thought about the key pad to make it...just to discover it does not work if you pretend to record it.
Then, I decided to use wheel 2 to increase the volume of those zones, but it does not work as I want since you are committed to assigning a volume range to the wheel and all zones affected will use it at the very same volume level you place the wheel at, while I wanted a different volume for each...
Then, again, I had to make good a diving into the tone level and create a volume assignment to each of the four voices used in each of the four zones so that when the volume assigned by wheel 2 goes to 100% at all four zones, each will sound at different levels, as was initially required...and before leaving the scene all new four tones were saved, but of course.

Funny to find ways to get done almost everything you want, but as you see Fantom can be in PLAYing mode or in RECORDing mode, it now seems to me.

So, is modeless Fantom far from true ?