RD-2000 vs FP-90 vs Yamaha CP88

[jalbert]

SuperNATURAL sounds are not processed trough V-Piano engine

which is not what I claimed. what I said was:

The FP-90 has Supernatural samples that are post-processed with V-piano modeling techniques

Roland says as much. I have no opinion about whether it is implemented independently from the v-piano engine. I suspect both share some DSP libraries or hardware.

[Stormchild]

at least out of the box, it is not suitable as a practice or recording instrument for much classical piano repertoire. It just lacks enough sustain.

It may not be to your liking, but as a blanket statement about its suitability for classical piano repertoire, this is just plain false.

[rd2000fan]

SuperNATURAL sounds are not processed trough V-Piano engine

which is not what I claimed. what I said was:

The FP-90 has Supernatural samples that are post-processed with V-piano modeling techniques

Roland says as much. I have no opinion about whether it is implemented independently from the v-piano engine. I suspect both share some DSP libraries or hardware.

Jalbert, everything you say, makes no sense at all. Both the V-Piano engine and SuperNATURAL engine are very-well integrated in the RD 2000, and its power is incredible, as well as the piano sounds too. Capable to be customized to sound like your dream piano.

I have a lot of piano libraries, many of the best piano libraries out there. I cannot mention brand names, but the only thing I can say is, the RD 2000 made me replace all of them. I stopped playing all my piano software/samples libraries when started playing the RD 2000 (something that before the RD 2000, I thought it was impossible).

Now, I have some recommendations for you:

1) Install the latest system update in the RD 2000.
2) Try out some expansion libraries too, or just download some custom sounds, maybe you find something you like. If none of that works for you, try this below...
3) Create your own ideal piano. The RD 2000 gives you all the power to do that.

Otherwise, I will keep believing you are been paid to say all this.

[rd2000fan]

at least out of the box, it is not suitable as a practice or recording instrument for much classical piano repertoire. It just lacks enough sustain.

It may not be to your liking, but as a blanket statement about its suitability for classical piano repertoire, this is just plain false.

Agree. The sustain in the RD 2000 is amazingly beautiful; and all the technology, such as the sympathetic resonance, all of that is incredibly amazing. It makes it sound gorgeous. But I recommend tweaking it; if you want to hear more resonance, just customize your sound; the RD 2000 has all the power for that.

[Fleer]

No sweat, jalbert, fanboys will be fanboys.

[rd2000fan]

No sweat, jalbert, fanboys will be fanboys.

Well yes, I am a fanboy of Steinway & Sons, but I can't just travel with one of those everywhere I go. Other than that, I also love the Yamaha acoustic pianos, such as the C7X and S7X concert grands. I am a fanboy of real pianos. But guess what, I can't travel with those. So I have to choose a piano that I can lift and take with me to different places, a Stage Piano; but something that has the feel and action that remembers me the sensation of playing a grand. I found the RD 2000, and yes I love it. What's the problem with that?

[jalbert]

I have ABSOLUTELY ZERO financial interest in the promotion or sales of any brand or model of piano, digital, VST, or acoustic. Period. I am referring to a very specific technique of playing piano, which is the sustain sufficient to play a melody with a singing tone. Many pianos, including acoustic ones, may have a falloff in tone in the beginning of the rendition of the tone that prevents and even, singing quality to the melody. Pianists who have developed the ability to play with a singing tone will make adjustments to their attack on the notes of a given piano until what they hear has the singing quality. All I can say is that I have not been able to do that with the flagship and a number of other piano patches in the RD2000 in the out-of-the-box configuration. The FP90 was noticeably better in that regard, and the flagship supernatural piano patch in the FP90 is not available in the RD2000.

While most pieces of music that benefit from playing with a singing tone are in the classical piano repertoire, Dave Brubeck's Strange Meadowlark would be a jazz standard that also would benefit.

I believe that it is quite likely that Roland configured the modeled piano sounds of the RD2000 to have a more percussive, piercing tone to cut through the mix of an amplified band or ensemble, and that it is likely that this can be adjusted with a configuration change. I have not heard anyone who values pianos that support that type of plying step forward with a preferred configuration that addresses the issue. In the absence of that, this thread would just go in circles, so this will be my last posting to it. I do think that RD2000 owners may find that there are v-piano modeling features that give them control over this, and there are opportunities to make the sound of their instrument even better. It would be a constructive outcome of this thread if some empirical results on how to do that became available and were posted.

[Stormchild]

I believe that it is quite likely that Roland configured the modeled piano sounds of the RD2000 to have a more percussive, piercing tone to cut through the mix of an amplified band or ensemble, and that it is likely that this can be adjusted with a configuration change. I have not heard anyone who values pianos that support that type of plying step forward with a preferred configuration that addresses the issue. In the absence of that, this thread would just go in circles, so this will be my last posting to it. I do think that RD2000 owners may find that there are v-piano modeling features that give them control over this, and there are opportunities to make the sound of their instrument even better. It would be a constructive outcome of this thread if some empirical results on how to do that became available and were posted.

In other words, until someone else comes forward with a solution to a problem you've only described in a vague manner ("sustain sufficient to play a melody with a singing tone" means nothing to anyone but you), you stand by your unsubstantiated claim that the RD-2000 piano sounds are unusable for classical music.

[Gus]

I have ABSOLUTELY ZERO financial interest in the promotion or sales of any brand or model of piano, digital, VST, or acoustic. Period. I am referring to a very specific technique of playing piano, which is the sustain sufficient to play a melody with a singing tone. Many pianos, including acoustic ones, may have a falloff in tone in the beginning of the rendition of the tone that prevents and even, singing quality to the melody. Pianists who have developed the ability to play with a singing tone will make adjustments to their attack on the notes of a given piano until what they hear has the singing quality. All I can say is that I have not been able to do that with the flagship and a number of other piano patches in the RD2000 in the out-of-the-box configuration. The FP90 was noticeably better in that regard, and the flagship supernatural piano patch in the FP90 is not available in the RD2000.

While most pieces of music that benefit from playing with a singing tone are in the classical piano repertoire, Dave Brubeck's Strange Meadowlark would be a jazz standard that also would benefit.

I believe that it is quite likely that Roland configured the modeled piano sounds of the RD2000 to have a more percussive, piercing tone to cut through the mix of an amplified band or ensemble, and that it is likely that this can be adjusted with a configuration change. I have not heard anyone who values pianos that support that type of plying step forward with a preferred configuration that addresses the issue. In the absence of that, this thread would just go in circles, so this will be my last posting to it. I do think that RD2000 owners may find that there are v-piano modeling features that give them control over this, and there are opportunities to make the sound of their instrument even better. It would be a constructive outcome of this thread if some empirical results on how to do that became available and were posted.

Hi Jalbert
I have 2 questions for you.
1- Are you an internationally renowned concert performer?
2- Do you own a "Rd 2000"?
A high-level concert performer would not dwell on such puerile dialogues.
We must compare what is comparable, no digital piano can compete with a concert piano prepared by a tuner, because the physical sensation transmitted by the soundboard can not be equaled by speakers, that is act of the "FP90" or "RD2000".
Very important, if you have a "RD2000" with which audio system do you use it?
If you do not have "RD2000", buy it and discover its features you will see that it is good.
If you can not play with the "Rd2000", (you are the only one) at this time, work your technique or so go to "Steinway and sons" by cons it will be much more expensive ..... .
cordially.
Gus

[SledDriver]

Very important, if you have a "RD2000" with which audio system do you use it?

I was the first person to respond to jalbert in this thread, where I asked about his amplification and monitor system. No reply to date.

We must compare what is comparable, no digital piano can compete with a concert piano prepared by a tuner, because the physical sensation transmitted by the soundboard can not be equaled by speakers, that is act of the "FP90" or "RD2000".

I understand what you are trying to say here, but it's not quite correct, otherwise no recording of a Steinway would sound so good - that's coming out of speakers. I use top end monitoring systems in both the studio and in my hifi playback room, all fully calibrated pro level gear, calibrated to the reproduction equipment and the environment, and I still say the quality out of an RD-2000 is exceptional. I'm known for being very fussy about audio quality, especially pianos, and the RD-2000 works for me.

[Gus]

Hi Sleddriver.

My previous post addressed to jalbert was on the tone of irony (humor of the second degree in french because I am French and tired of reading untruths on the "RD2000".

I have this exceptional instrument and for me it's a marvel.
What I wanted to highlight is the physical sensation, this sensation that makes you vibrate when you play a very good concert piano.
I absolutely do not say that the tone of a Steinway would be distorted by passing through loudspeakers, the speakers give me less emotion than the physical relationship with the piano.
That said good good calibrated monitors are essential to get closer to perfection with the "RD2000".
see you soon
Gus

[rd2000fan]

I am referring to a very specific technique of playing piano, which is the sustain sufficient to play a melody with a singing tone.

Jalbert, The RD 2000 has an amazingly rich sustain to support the singing tone, for the classical repertoire too. You don't hear enough sustain? just add it! it's too easy, man! we can show you, we can help on that.

The RD 2000 is more than great on that. And that's well complemented with gorgeous and amazing piano sounds, with authentic touch/feel and action.

All together is the result of almost 40 years of research, by one of the most renowned and respected brands in the industry.

Many pianos, including acoustic ones, may have a falloff in tone in the beginning of the rendition of the tone that prevents and even, singing quality to the melody

What specific brands you are talking about?

Rule #1: Don't put digital pianos and real concert pianos in this same specific context.
Never do that. Nope. Two different categories.

Man what you have been drinking lately?

You may be ok at using beautiful words, but you are not good at convincing professional piano players.

All I can say is that I have not been able to do that with the flagship and a number of other piano patches in the RD2000 in the out-of-the-box configuration.

That's because you need to learn. Take some classes.

The RD 2000 has an outstanding ability to play in any piano style and any piano technique.

Man you don't sound like an experienced pianist.

Many of us have tried it already, and that's why we still have the RD 2000! it's amazingly great!

The FP90 was noticeably better in that regard, and the flagship supernatural piano patch in the FP90 is not available in the RD2000.

What?

Man you need Jesus! you need Jesus, man!

Even if the RD 2000 and the FP 90 are both in the digital pianos categories, Roland puts them under different sub-categories: Stage Pianos and Portable Pianos, to avoid confusion by the consumer. So you are still comparing two different things.

• While the FP 90 is more for personal use, at home, or small venues like family parties or even just a student, and yes, professionals too (and it is still like a flagship in its sub-category).

• On the other hand, the RD 2000 was designed for the stage, to be played by professionals.
  At this level of commitment (the stage, the scenario, the auditorium, the ovation, the concert hall), Roland puts more effort to satisfy professional piano players. Having that said, the FP 90 can't compete with the RD 2000.
  
  The RD 2000 is also the Roland's flagship of stage pianos at the moment, since the V Piano was discontinued. And it's a top selling model too, giving you all you need, and more. And the people love the sound of the RD 2000!

Like I said, you don't hear enough sustain? just add it man! it's so easy! we can show you how.

Is that you are jealous because we have the RD 2000? man, we could possibly arrange to make a collect (fundraiser) so you can have it too. Send me a private message, let's see what we can do to help.

I have ABSOLUTELY ZERO financial interest in the promotion or sales of any brand or model of piano, digital, VST, or acoustic.

So then why you are in a RD 2000 forum trying to convince us that our instrument is not good enough? No, you can't.
Our ears don't lie. We will continue to love our Roland instrument.
Our ears don't lie.

I have not heard anyone who values pianos that support that type of playing step forward with a preferred configuration that addresses the issue.

Yes, Roland, Yamaha, Korg, etc, That's how they make digital pianos. And they give you the tools to do it too.

Man what is all that nonsense mess that you are talking man???

Don't mix tequila with Hennessy man! Don’t do that! is not good for your health!

You see? Man you make me feel like I'm wasting my time discussing the same thing over and over with an enthusiast.

I will give you a suggestion to try:

1. Buy the RD 2000, in the first place.
2. Connect it to the right speakers (very important). If you fail on this step, you fail the entire quest.
3. Once you have the RD 2000, make sure it has the latest update installed.
4. Go to the first SN piano that you find (assuming that you don't like the V Piano sounds, if I'm not wrong).
The tone is: 0001 Concert Grand.
5. Click on the Tone Designer button, and go to Sympathetic Resonance.
6. Once you are in the Sympathetic Resonance menu, do the following:
Switch: ON
Depth: 93 to 105 (as you wish)
Damper: (here you can add as much as you want)
NOTICE: you can also adjust Damper Noise, String
Resonance, Key Off
Resonance, Mechanical Key
On Noise, Sound Lift, and many other things if you like.
AND you can also adjust each note individually too.
But by default, it sounds just amazing!
7. Click on the Write button to save it, you can put the name you want.

*** Steps 1 to 7 are to have much more sustain and resonance, and it sounds amazing in classical styles too. In fact, by doing this I have found the RD 2000 has the most beautiful and rich sustain and resonance that I have heard in a digital piano.

TRY IT!

Then...

7. Go to the effects panel > set the Reverb level from 70-105 or more...
8. And set the pre-delay (on the reverb) to 50 ms.
10. Save again.

Steps 8, 9 and 10 are just to add some classical room.
But what I recommend to you is the steps 1-7 that are to a rich and natural sustain that is suitable for any classical or romantic style, including the singing tone.

I can also save time for you and send the preset which is very easy to import.

If that doesn't works for you, then try this:

1) go to your kitchen, fry some potatoes with sausage and eggs, 2) don't drink too much hennessy with tequila,, try some wine instead, something lite, not that heavy, eat good and drink lite, 3) go back to your FP 90, play it as much as you can, and 4) stop messing around being the only one that doesn't likes the RD 2000 man! c'mon! if you don't like it because is not like Steinway & Sons then go buy a Steinway & Sons man! are you trying to kill all of us with your depression? stop man! stop! all you say is a non-sense mess that only you agree.

In the absence of that, this thread would just go in circles, so this will be my last posting to it

Yeah man! go fry potatoes!

Jalbert, we all disagree with you man. Like I said, you don't hear enough sustain? just add it! it's so easy man! Yes you can! it's a digital piano. You can also use it to control many software pianos too if you want, which sound great too. You just don't know how to do anything of that. We can show you how. But don't try to theorize and convince us of the nonsense.

And if you don't accept our help to learn more, then go take some classes somewhere else and stop wasting our time!

[wave]

Guys, you’re making a tempest in a glass of water...

[jalbert]

Sustain for a singing tone has to do with what happens in the first second or two of the tone. You do not have to be an international concert artist to have had sufficient training at touch and tone to identify instruments that are limiting factors for playing with a singing tone. The point is to connect the notes in a melody in an even singing manner with no falloff in tone from one note to the next. Some instruments support that very well, some less well but ok, and some poorly. This is true of both acoustic and digital instruments.

[Chrisk-K]

When I read that playing Schumann's "From a Foreign Land" was the stiff test for any piano (the OP got the title wrong BTW), I knew that he had no credibility.