Roland Clan Forums

Hi all,

I suspect this isn't possible but am looking for a definitive answer. I realize that only 1 EXP pack can be loaded on the DS88 at once. And I suspect that even if one was to copy the EXP patches to user slots, one would lose the tone (even if modified) once a new EXP pack was loaded because the UNDERLYING WAVE file would be gone that supports the tone. Is this correct?

I am trying to establish if there is a way to create a "best of collection" either by way of user slots or indeed using TONE manager but I just can't find any way forward in this regard.

Also, is there any good documentation that clearly elaborates on the structure of a patch? I.e., 4 tones to a patch with the tones comprised of waves, etc.? The structure is still unclear to me and I think I would do better with the programming side if I understood the structure itself.

Also, last but not least, I was blown away that one couldn't assign Sequence patterns to pads in the much the same way the rhythm patters are when in that mode. Seems that would be the easiest way to trigger multiple sequences. Scrolling through the list while live is obviously a bit ridiculous? Is this just an intentional bid to prevent you using it as a quasi-song sequencer (rather than just pattern sequencer)? I realize you can always export them and reimport them as wav files but this lack of ability to program the pads to do exactly what I want to do with them seems shortsighted. Pads are by definition large buttons designed for live use.

By the way, smitten with the tones of the Juno DS. Great pianos. Love YannLeo's Yamaha Motif too! Very decent sound.

Thanks!

marklivesinla wrote:Hi all,

I suspect this isn't possible but am looking for a definitive answer. I realize that only 1 EXP pack can be loaded on the DS88 at once. And I suspect that even if one was to copy the EXP patches to user slots, one would lose the tone (even if modified) once a new EXP pack was loaded because the UNDERLYING WAVE file would be gone that supports the tone. Is this correct? I am trying to establish if there is a way to create a "best of collection" either by way of user slots or indeed using TONE manager but I just can't find any way forward in this regard.

Yes, it is correct. Sounds depend on samples that are exclusively put inside the expansion slot.

marklivesinla wrote:
Also, is there any good documentation that clearly elaborates on the structure of a patch? I.e., 4 tones to a patch with the tones comprised of waves, etc.? The structure is still unclear to me and I think I would do better with the programming side if I understood the structure itself.

Yes, it is 4-part composed. It is a classical Roland architecture.

marklivesinla wrote:

Also, last but not least, I was blown away that one couldn't assign Sequence patterns to pads in the much the same way the rhythm patters are when in that mode. Seems that would be the easiest way to trigger multiple sequences. Scrolling through the list while live is obviously a bit ridiculous? Is this just an intentional bid to prevent you using it as a quasi-song sequencer (rather than just pattern sequencer)? I realize you can always export them and reimport them as wav files but this lack of ability to program the pads to do exactly what I want to do with them seems shortsighted. Pads are by definition large buttons designed for live use.

Pattern sequencer is different from drum pattern mode. The latter is a simple pattern player, one MIDI channel only, the latter is a complex multi-MIDI player. For this reason, pad are not pattern, they are channel. It is a different concept.

marklivesinla wrote:

By the way, smitten with the tones of the Juno DS. Great pianos. Love YannLeo's Yamaha Motif too! Very decent sound.

Agree. In my humble opinion, it is built on Fantom solid foundations and it blows away FA series, even in the Piano category.

joelfan wrote:Yes, it is correct. Sounds depend on samples that are exclusively put inside the expansion slot.

Right, I just posted something similar in marklivesinla's earlier thread. But I wonder if there might be an exception for the XV-5080 expansions. Those downloads are tiny, so it seems to me that, unlike the other expansions, that one does not use its own wave data, but instead repurposes wave data already in the DS. (That would be reminiscent of Roland's downloads that gave the XV-5080 sounds to the Fantom, and since the DS is Fantom-based, may even be a repurposing of the exact same programming. See http://eg.roland.com/support/by_product ... ivers/1735 ) In that case, the required samples are still resident even after the expansion slot is used for something else. So at least in theory, it seems like it should be possible to copy your favorite XV-5080 expansion sounds to User locations, and have them still work when their expansion libraries are no longer loaded. Has anyone tried that?

@anotherscott is correct, in that the expansion files for the XV-5080 patches are smaller and of a different type. The logical conclusion is that the JUNO-DS has the XV-5080 samples internally, which is not unusual given that manufacturers do continue leveraging old samples almost a decade or more later (e.g. YAMAHA and the MOTIF sounds, and KORG with TRITON sounds). I found a video in YouTube that is in Spanish, that explains that you can use the JUNO Librarian (https://www.roland.com/global/support/b ... 8caded90c/) to upload select XV-5080 patches to desired User locations. This means XV-5080 patches can be mixed and matched. However, I cannot even open the .bin files for the other EXP packs with either the Librarian or with Tone Manager. So for the moment, it is not possible to mix and match EXP packs that are based on the EXP series ROM boards. Below is a link to the YouTube video in Spanish.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1_4GMB7W9g

nelsonp wrote:@anotherscott is correct, in that the expansion files for the XV-5080 patches are smaller and of a different type. The logical conclusion is that the JUNO-DS has the XV-5080 samples internally

...though actually, as I mentioned, I believe it does not have those samples. If you look at the XV-5080 sound set for Fantom (link in my previous post), the readme says, "Since the Waveform's contents are different between the Fantom-X and the XV Series, previous XV Patches will not sound completely the same on the Fantom-X Series." So they're saying the Fantom does not actually include the XV-5080 wave set, instead it sounds like they are picking similar waveforms to create close approximations. Since the Juno is Fantom-based, then the Axial XV-5080 downloads for the Juno DS would presumably similarly be close recreations of the XV-5080 programs using Fantom waves, likely even the exact same programs that were provided for he Fantom.

nelsonp wrote:I found a video in YouTube that is in Spanish, that explains that you can use the JUNO Librarian to upload select XV-5080 patches to desired User locations. This means XV-5080 patches can be mixed and matched.

Excellent! So it sounds like you could pick a bunch of your favorite sounds from all seven 5080 expansion packs, keep them all permanently resident in your User bank, and still have the Expansion slot free for one of the other SRX-based expansions.

nelsonp wrote:However, I cannot even open the .bin files for the other EXP packs with either the Librarian or with Tone Manager. So for the moment, it is not possible to mix and match EXP packs that are based on the EXP series ROM boards.

I would not expect that to change, since unlike the 5080 expansion packs, those other expansion packs do come with (and require the presence of) their own sets of wave data, and that wave data disappears when you load another such expansion pack, since there is only enough memory in the DS to hold one set of that data at a time. For that to change, Roland would have to provide some way to create custom expansion sets that include pieces of different ones, though as I mentioned elsewhere, it is possible for even just a single sound from an expansion pack to actually need all the wave data in that expansion all by itself (i.e. a single piano from EXP-09), so that there wouldn't be room to be able to combine it with anything else anyway, even if that kind of facility were supported.

I guess another possibility would be if Roland provided some way to use the user sample memory to hold additional expansion wave data. But in a way, you might be able to do this yourself today. If there are some sounds from unloaded EXPs that you wish you could access all the time, you could try loading them, sampling them, and loading your user-sampled version back into that user sample memory. Depending on the kind of sound it is, you might get the results you need.

Along with the multisampling support that was originally missing on Juno DS, I was hoping that Roland would introduce the ability to import and use at least two EXP packs at the same time, like the Fantom X could hold up to four SRX cards and had all the sounds from them instantly available. Personaly, multisampling was a most important missing feature for me so I couldn't be happier with 2.0 version, but if it's technically possible, it would be great if some future firmware upgrade brings the possibility to use multiple EXP packs at the same time.

anotherscott wrote:

joelfan wrote:Yes, it is correct. Sounds depend on samples that are exclusively put inside the expansion slot.

Right, I just posted something similar in marklivesinla's earlier thread. But I wonder if there might be an exception for the XV-5080 expansions. Those downloads are tiny, so it seems to me that, unlike the other expansions, that one does not use its own wave data, but instead repurposes wave data already in the DS. (That would be reminiscent of Roland's downloads that gave the XV-5080 sounds to the Fantom, and since the DS is Fantom-based, may even be a repurposing of the exact same programming. See http://eg.roland.com/support/by_product ... ivers/1735 ) In that case, the required samples are still resident even after the expansion slot is used for something else. So at least in theory, it seems like it should be possible to copy your favorite XV-5080 expansion sounds to User locations, and have them still work when their expansion libraries are no longer loaded. Has anyone tried that?

XV-5080 Axial downloads are tiny because the waves are already resident. THey are just patches, not waves.

SRX Axial downloads are not tiny. SRX are about 30MB, which is the correct compressed size of SRX. Remember that Roland stores waveforms in compressed form. That's why the write "16-bit linear equivalent".