Juno DS76 pattern sequencer and split not possible?

[VelvetSpider]

Hi everyone, I'm trying to play something with a split with bass on lower and synth on upper along with a rhythm pattern, however I need a 3/4 rhythm and the Juno DS doesn't seem to have any. It's easy enough to create my own in the pattern sequencer, but then I can't play with splits or layers within the pattern sequencer.

Is it really not possible to play with a split and have a 3/4 rhythm? It seems like such a simple thing.

The only solution I can think of it to get an external drum machine with midi-out so I could at least trigger the DS drum kits.

[vespina]

Unfortunately, JunoDS is very limited regarding drum tracks and the sequencer. The amount of included drum pattenrs is ridiculously small and you can't even create your owns or even have a sync start (almost any other keyboard in this same price range have 100+ drum tracks and sync start).

And in Pattern Sequencer mode you can't use performances; only individual patches (this is perhaps the worst limitation I found so far in this otherwise great keyboard).

The only alternative is to use the Pattern Sequencer to create your drum groove, then record it as audio file with your DAW, then import that wav into your Juno as a sound file and assign it to one of the pads with the loop set activated. This way you can start/stop your drum track using the pads and play along with any patch or performances you want.

[vespina]

Thinking about this, its absurd that Roland didn't include a way to create your own rhythm patterns, since you already have all you need to do so RIGHT from your keyboard:

1. A rhythm pattern has 8 variations
2. The sequencer pattern has 8 tracks
3. Then, you can use those tracks to record each required variation for your custom rhythm pattern

At this point, all you would need is an option when you press the Menu button to save this sequence pattern as a Rhythm Pattern (the same way you already have a Save as performance option)... That is it!!

Also, you already have a dedicated play/stop button... this button could be used to sync start your rythym pattern, by (for example) press & hold the button for 3 seconds.

[VelvetSpider]

Hi vespina, thanks for your suggestion, I managed to get my drum loop to play in a performance this way. Not ideal though since it's a huge hassle and the tempo can't be changed, unfortunately it seems this is the best the Juno DS can do.

I share your feelings about how stupid it is there's no way to create rhythm patterns, especially since there aren't that many presets and they mostly all sound the same (to me anyway). I'd much rather have had a bigger variety of musical styles than 8 versions of the same rhythm pattern. There's no intro/outro/fill-in either, which seems like such a waste of the phrase pad.

The pattern sequencer itself is a huge disappointment too, and at least in my case just a gimmick if I can't trigger patterns within a performance.

When I bought the Juno DS I had also been considering the VR-09. Can't help wonder if I made the right choice. I suspected if I traded it now I'd end up regretting it though, grass is always greener as they say.

[DeMarco]

Thinking about this, its absurd that Roland didn't include a way to create your own rhythm patterns...

in Pattern Sequencer mode you can't use performances; only individual patches...

Would it be possible to indicate these important deficiencies to the manufacturer in some way?
Would it be possible to implement these in a software update yet?
What are your ideas?

[anotherscott]

I'd much rather have had a bigger variety of musical styles than 8 versions of the same rhythm pattern. There's no intro/outro/fill-in either

Those features are associated with arrangers. Roland has the BK-3, BK-5, and E-A7 which I presume can do that sort of thing, though Korg and Yamaha are probably the bigger players in that field.

When I bought the Juno DS I had also been considering the VR-09. Can't help wonder if I made the right choice. I suspected if I traded it now I'd end up regretting it though, grass is always greener as they say.

Overall, the DS is much more capable in its features... besides the pattern sequencer, also things like 16-way split/layering, more flexible effects, fully editable sounds (even the synth sounds which ARE editable on the VR require an external editor), vocoder, pannable sounds, memory for custom samples, better patch selection facilities (e.g. the DS lets you select 100 favorites from 10 buttons vs. essentially 16 favorites from 4 buttins, plus you can recall those sounds over MIDI which you can't do on a VR). So yeah, you might find it's a grass-is-greener scenario. The VR is certainly a much better organ, though, and has some other sounds which I think are better than what's in the DS, and it has a bit more of a hands-on immediate interface. Trade-offs...

[DeMarco]

Roland has the BK-3, BK-5, and E-A7 which I presume can do that sort of thing, though Korg and Yamaha are probably the bigger players in that field.

The question of 30 style x 8 variation on J.DS:
Well, 200 static rhythms were also known from RD pianos, with playback only mode.
On the other hand, the DS would be a small workstation and my expection would be more from it too.
Or I could mention the arpeggiators in the much more feature-rich Yamaha MX or MOX, MOXF instruments. These not arrangers like Roland BKs, but also give more strong facilities with pattern mode, especially in MOX series...
Unfortunately, Roland couldn't grow up here for the job. :(

[anotherscott]

My arranger reference were in response to the comment about limited range of styles and lack of intro/outro/fill-in.

But as for your comparison in general, every board has things the others don't. The Juno DS is a lot cheaper than the MOX/MOXF were, they'd compete more with the FA. The MX price is more like the Juno DS price, and while it may have some things the Juno does not, the Juno also has a whole lot of capabilities that the MX does not.

[anotherscott]

The only alternative is to use the Pattern Sequencer to create your drum groove, then record it as audio file with your DAW, then import that wav into your Juno as a sound file and assign it to one of the pads with the loop set activated. This way you can start/stop your drum track using the pads and play along with any patch or performances you want.

Hi vespina, thanks for your suggestion, I managed to get my drum loop to play in a performance this way. Not ideal though since it's a huge hassle and the tempo can't be changed, unfortunately it seems this is the best the Juno DS can do.

That is basically what Roland suggests on the DS product page at https://www.roland.com/us/products/juno-ds/

When your bandmates can’t make it to the rehearsal or gig, the JUNO-DS offers the perfect solution, covering the missing parts and giving you a full-band sound. Using the phrase pads, you can bring instant beats to your music by playing along with the authentic drum patterns, or copy audio data (MP3/WAV) onto the USB memory and play it back at the gig.

[vespina]

Its highly unlikely that Roland would roll up a new system update for the JunoDS, because although its the only current choice they have at this price range, it is somehow an old product. More likely they would do something similar to what Korg just did with the Nautilus and release a scaled-down version of the FA in the near future, that will replace the JunoDS as a mid-price option.

Thinking about this, its absurd that Roland didn't include a way to create your own rhythm patterns...

in Pattern Sequencer mode you can't use performances; only individual patches...

Would it be possible to indicate these important deficiencies to the manufacturer in some way?
Would it be possible to implement these in a software update yet?
What are your ideas?

[happyrat1]

I wish someone would write an open letter to Roland Management that could explain how their nickel and dime pricing attitude have ruined a perfectly functional MIDI Workstation and crippled both the MIDI and Sequencing abilities of what could have been an instant classic bedroom workstation.

The inability to export MIDI from the step sequencer is a slap in the face of any home studio enthusiast as well as any professional song writers who might have picked one up to work with.

I've bought and owned plenty of gear over the years, lots from Roland too, but I let my guts tell me when I've bought a beautiful ice carving swan with a huge turd in the middle. :P

What is it with Roland and crippling their equipment with oddball MIDI configurations. I owned a JD-Xi once. Sold it within a year because every MIDI channel in the thing was fixed to a single engine and COULD NOT BE CHANGED!

What REALLY burns me up is that this could be fixed with a simple Firmware upgrade.

I may not bother sticking around waiting for it though. I may just take my chances with trading up from the Juno DS88 to a Korg Nautilus.

Too bad you missed the boat Roland...

Your customers have LOOOOONG memories. :P

Gary ;)

[vespina]

Indeed. I love my DS, but it seems absurd to me the lack of some functionality that I would deem as "basic" in a keyboard of this price range, like the drum track sync start button, a decent amount of onboard drum tracks, the ability to reproduce MIDI files from the pads, the ability to save arpeggiator settings to a custom patch or performance or the possibility to use performances on Pattern Sequencer mode.


Victor

I wish someone would write an open letter to Roland Management that could explain how their nickel and dime pricing attitude have ruined a perfectly functional MIDI Workstation and crippled both the MIDI and Sequencing abilities of what could have been an instant classic bedroom workstation.

The inability to export MIDI from the step sequencer is a slap in the face of any home studio enthusiast as well as any professional song writers who might have picked one up to work with.

I've bought and owned plenty of gear over the years, lots from Roland too, but I let my guts tell me when I've bought a beautiful ice carving swan with a huge turd in the middle. :P

What is it with Roland and crippling their equipment with oddball MIDI configurations. I owned a JD-Xi once. Sold it within a year because every MIDI channel in the thing was fixed to a single engine and COULD NOT BE CHANGED!

What REALLY burns me up is that this could be fixed with a simple Firmware upgrade.

I may not bother sticking around waiting for it though. I may just take my chances with trading up from the Juno DS88 to a Korg Nautilus.

Too bad you missed the boat Roland...

Your customers have LOOOOONG memories. :P

Gary ;)

[OvergrownLawn]

Sorry to dig up an old thread but I was thinking about buying a Juno-DS. But after reading this thread I dont think its right for me.
So, you cant assign different midi channels to different parts of the keyboard splits? Or assign different midi channels to different pattern sequences?

I want to be able to record a pattern played on the juno-ds and have the pattern play out through midi on a external sound module like a roland boutique or moog minitaur. Is that possible? All while synced to an external clock source like the TR-8S thats playing live. Basically live looping using the Juno-ds as midi controller/phrase recorder for external synths.

[anotherscott]

So, you cant assign different midi channels to different parts of the keyboard splits?

You can do that.

As for the rest of the things you asked about, though, I don't know.

[vespina]

In a performance you can assign each part to a separate MIDI channels, so no problem there. On the pattern sequencer I am not sure if you can assign a different Midi channel for each variation, but I would say you probably won't be able. Also, the Pattern Sequencer works as a AUDIO recorder, not a MIDI recorder, so what you want to do is not possible with the JunoDS.

That said, check this review; is the most extensive review I've read about the JunoDS:
https://www.pianodreamers.com/roland-juno-ds-review/

Make not mistake: JunoDS is a GREAT keyboard for live playing, but it may not cover all the use cases out there.


Victor

Sorry to dig up an old thread but I was thinking about buying a Juno-DS. But after reading this thread I dont think its right for me.
So, you cant assign different midi channels to different parts of the keyboard splits? Or assign different midi channels to different pattern sequences?

I want to be able to record a pattern played on the juno-ds and have the pattern play out through midi on a external sound module like a roland boutique or moog minitaur. Is that possible? All while synced to an external clock source like the TR-8S thats playing live. Basically live looping using the Juno-ds as midi controller/phrase recorder for external synths.