Save Song (Caution)? Verified!! <--

[Quinnx.]

Agree that would work as a final option
However normal workflow would not accommodate this which is normally

creation process
record
edit
save song current state
repeat until satisfied

Given that save song does not save song current state after editing
this once again means we must also now do a bulk dump for every song save.
and if we do not or if we don't write to a new studio set after each save, if there is a crash
or power loss or lockup we loose everything..
Still not good enough a bulk dump should be atuomatic and part of the save process just like the fantom range.

[Quinnx.]

Received reply from roland regarding the lack of save functionality when you save song..
dispite the fact that I sent a copy of the previous mail and its response along with the quote from the manual that stated edits made to studio set effect previously saved songs.

the response i received simply refereed back to the paragraph regarding studioset edits
with no offer of a resolution to the problem that exists..

So you can take from that
Roland is ignoring the problem and basically sticking it to the customer.

If i had an fa right now id be sending it back without a second thought.

However if there are any serious FA users or potential buyers out there, Id suggest emailing
roland support regarding the dissatisfaction of such a flaw and to get it fixed.
Since I have already started who else will join or will we all be sheep.

you can start by going here
http://www.rolandus.com/backstage/login/

and dont be dissuade by any roland rep that happens to come on to the forum to give empty assurances
as its just their way of stopping you emailing and have them to respond directly which realy kills
any kind of email campaign as it has done on rolandclan in the past and the result being Zero.

[Devnor]

There's 2 key bits of info in the manual - you might have missed this. First, they describe what a "song" is:

Performance data for one song is called a song. This contains the data for tracks 1–16, the tempo track, the time signature track, and the samples

Later on in the manual, they go on to say this:

In addition to the performance data, a song also contains information about the studio set. This means that the song playback is affected if you edit the studio set or the tones that are used by a song.

This is how the FA is designed, Quinnx. There is no "resolution" because there is no "problem". Furthermore there is nothing to "ignore" because the problem doesn't actually exist. Well, it exists in your head. There are hundreds of studio sets in the FA. With a little careful management, there is no need to bulk dump after each song.

[Quinnx.]

Sounds simple enough when you haven't experienced the issues that are yet to be realized by this
oversight with song save..
People have a choice..
Ignore whats in plain view and wait until its too late to get the issue addressed..

Or see the issue for what it really is and act now to get it fixed..

I have seen the same pattern from people on the X and G and other roland gear over the years when issues like this have been highlighted..
and like your self go through the same blind motions not taking any action, until one day..
BAM!
sudden realization and then..

GAME OVER! too late
(and you`ll only have yourselves to blame when its over not roland.)

[Devnor]

Like I said earlier in this thread, many of todays current workstations do not save the patch/combi within the song. It only points to the memory location of the combi. If you've ever worked with a DAW, you've probably encountered the same thing. For example, if you are using Omnisphere in Logic, the multi is not saved within the project. You must save the multi separately and Logic does not prompt you for that action either.

If your work is valuable to you, then it's prudent to do regular backups anyway.

[cello]

Must admit that this would be how I would it expect it to work.

It's exactly the same principal as the three-tier JP-80 structure.

Registrations = Song
Liveset = Studioset
Tones = Tones

If I edit a tone that is used by 10 Livesets and 6 Registrations, I would expect them all now to carry the edit to that one tone.

Therefore, if I edit a studioset then I would expect any songs using it to reflect the change.

Or have I missed something here? lol - could be, am still getting round my FA-06!

[Devnor]

Yeah you missed one thing...with the Jupiter you can use liveset modify screen to make tweaks to existing tones without modifying anything at the tone level. These adjustments are saved with the liveset.

[cello]

Yeah you missed one thing...with the Jupiter you can use liveset modify screen to make tweaks to existing tones without modifying anything at the tone level. These adjustments are saved with the liveset.

True - forgot about that. The Liveset layer in many ways is where 'it all happens'! :)

[Devnor]

The greatness of the Jupiter just keeps on giving. But seriously liveset modify is one of the ways I'm getting along without a patch librarian.

[Quinnx.]

if you are using Omnisphere

Yupe ive use DAW and Omnispehere and the DAW saved all edits as part of the song.
so i never had to save patches or multi`s.

So its not to be unexpected that something as simple as the FA do exactly the same..

Now here something i dont know regarding the FA..
at least I need to confirm..
a studio set that edit any or all patches/tones
choosing Save studio set.. does it actually save those edits or does it warn you that you need to save patches before saving studio set..
if the answer is Yes then i go back to my original argument...
If studio sets save all edits That maybe a saving grace but not a solution.
and as i said if the X and G can do this there is no excuse that the FA does not.
Other thing to note is that at least the G has a VST plugin so once again if you use and external Daw
it will also save and recall all studio set edits when save or load songs.
The FA could do with having one of these too.

[jasonbass32]

Must admit I am confused by what the issue is with this song save stuff in the fa. Really thinking about an fa06 to replace a fantom. One of my primary uses will be to play backing tracks. My Normal workflow is to either purchase or make a gm file. Put the file in sonar to do any edits of the arrangement and to add the click track. Then I import into the fantom. Once in the fantom I mute the channels I dont need, do some additional micro editing as needed, change out the gm sounds for fantom sounds, and do the necessary pans and volume changes with the new patches. Sometimes the sounds are also tweAked with offsets (cutoff, resonance etc) The gm file is saved as a svq file. I basically do this for all songs, currently have about 45 in the fantom. I think I use the basic sequencing template as my starting point.

So my question is simple. Can I do this same workflow in the fa?

Thanks

Jason

[Quinnx.]

If your using GM then you wont have as much of a problem because these cannot be edited
GM tones, however if you are importing GMs and then editing mutes volumes etc..
you will need to save a new studio set before saving the edited song
after that... every other GM song you import will also need its own studio set etc...
so if you got 100 GMs you gonna have to create 100 GM studio sets
where as on the X and the G all you need do is choose SAVE SONG and your done and forget about
any studio sets that all ready exist.

[jasonbass32]

The patches are initially gm tones but the ones that don't get muted get replaced to whatever sound I can find closest to the original recording.

So every song file would have to have its own studio set saved. I guess that's doable but just doesn't make sense to me. Would be nice if someone from roland could confirm on this forum.

[Quinnx.]

Its already been confirmed in the manual and by roland in an email.

from the manual

• In addition to the performance data, a song also contains
information about the studio set. This means that the song
playback is affected if you edit the studio set or the tones that
are used by a song

Meaning every song needs its own unique studio set.

[The Sound Of Music]

[quote]So every song file would have to have its own studio set saved. I guess that's doable but just doesn't make sense to me. Would be nice if someone from roland could confirm on this forum./quote]

Yes it works well
Recording studio and in song after

Sorry I do not speak your language well