Kurzweil K2661

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jsepeta
Posts: 283
Joined: 07:21, 31 March 2004
Location: Indiana USA
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kurzweil info (long-winded)

Post by jsepeta »

over the past year or so, I guess I've become somewhat of a Kurzweil expert. I purchased a K2500X which needed a lot of repairs and upgrade parts, and I really did my homework.

the best community site for info on Kurzweil is www.sonikmatter.com. i'd lurk for a while before posting -- although they're quite knowledgeable, some of the guys are real jerks and not nearly as friendly as the folks on this site.

i prefer the Kurz for it's orchestral sounds and pads. something about VAST gives you "that TV/Movie sound". that said, i'm really enjoying my Fantom-S because it's got a lot of nice modern features -- drum machine pads, a zillion onboard sounds, USB, memory card, yada yada. I also have a Triton Rack, but it's a recent purchase so I cannot talk much about it strengths (atmospheric pads) and weaknesses (the WORST pianos) in much depth. anyway, most of y'all will agree that each vendor's products sound a little different than the others, and it's always preferable to have a wider/deeper palette of sounds than a thinner/shallower one.

one cannot compare the true 48 simultaneous voices on the Kurzweil line directly with the purported larger polyphony of the Fantom, Triton, and Motif, each of which may lose polyphony when sounds are stacked atop one another. the VAST architecture includes a great dynamic allocation scheme which makes it work as if the kurzweil has more available voices. yep, it's simultaneous NOTES, not OSCILLATORS, because VAST is a completely digital system that EMULATES how digital or analog synths produce and manipulate sound. There's even a dude who figured out how to get VAST to produce FM tones like the DX7, whereby source audio is modulated by an "operator".

there's been an awful lot of debate about the future of kurzweil. they have been owned for several years by young chang, who were recently bought out by samick. the new management has dropped a lot of staff and it's quite possible that kurzweil will be sold off or possibly even just scrapped outright... making the $3600 purchase of a K2600XS sting just a little more than usual. the K2661 is a bit more modern and cheaper than the K2500/K2600 models, but if you don't need to move your keyboards to gigs, I'd look for a used/b-stock K2600X or XS with the 88 weighted keys and ribbon controller. The kurzweil X series are perhaps the most expressive controllers EVER built, as they have pitch & mod wheels, *2* ribbon controllers, and multiple buttons and sliders for modifying settings while you're playing... plus an input for a breath controller. roland/yamaha/korg never quite "got it" in that department, and have instead focused on making cheaper, lighter keyboards that aren't so bad for your back OR bank account. patch selection is MUCH FASTER on a kurzweil (or XV88 for that matter) because you can type the corresponding patch number (955+enter -- "BATMAN STRINGS", my favorite patch) *way* faster than spinning the alpha dial a zillion times on your fantom to get from User 1 to SRX4. Sure, you can save favorites on a Fantom -- that's a feature Kurzweil had back in '95. (this would be my pet peeve -- why can't roland hack the fantom OS to let us use the drumpads to select patches?)

kurzweils are like british jaguars -- very expensive to own and maintain, but "worth it" to a certain customer. they were a decade ahead of everyone from 1990-1995, but since then, the Japanese companies have caught up and in many ways surpassed them. here are some examples: my K2500XS has an onboard 2gb scsi hard drive (more than a motif/triton/fantom) and 128mb ram (less), 2 external scsi connections (more), a floppy drive (antiquated), and KDFX, a $700 add-on effects system that runs on additional DSPs not found in the original model. KDFX is bundled for free on K2600's including the K2661. the $300 ROMs for contemporary and orchestral sound good, but with Roland you get a TON more patches (100 vs 300+) with every $220 SRX board. the KDFX Leslie emulation blows away the leslie effects on the fantom, and since the fantom lacks a mod wheel, I can't just "dial up" a leslie setting and play 2 fisted chords -- instead I've got to rest my left hand on the joystick which has a tendency to sound more like "LFOs gone wild" than "Greg Rolie was my hero". thank goodness for my VK8 :-)

now to answer your initial question: can a fantom be used to make good-sounding commercials and tv/movie soundtracks? absolutely. BUT, I find the Roland sounds to be a little more "hyped" for pop music production, while the Kurzweil tends to sound a little more dark. i like them both, and play them to their strengths.

of course, if you have any further questions re: kurzweil, feel free to ask away.

---
Desperate times call for desperate measures.

Check out my site: www.lo-res.com
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jsepeta
Posts: 283
Joined: 07:21, 31 March 2004
Location: Indiana USA
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PC2 is NOT a K2661

Post by jsepeta »

you need to be careful that you compare similar items. the PC2/PC2X/PC2R sound good, *but* they're romplers and lack the sampling & synthesis features of the K2000/K2500/K2600 series kurzweils -- compare the PC2 series to unexpandable synths like the RS5. yep, you'd get a taste of the kurzweil sound by owning a PC2 (I once owned its predecessor, the PC88mx), but you can neither load synth patches nor samples on the (quite limited) PC2. the PC2 features the K2600's triple-strike piano, which is perhaps better suited for classical music than the roland digital pianos.

Motifs sound ok, but are weak on 3rd party support. There is a HUGE selection of KRZ files for the K series that you can load via a floppy disk (but alas, not onto a PC2). I've compiled a cd with 700+ kurzweil KRZ's (think SVD's for Roland or PCG's for Korg) I found on the web if you're interested; but there's also some great patches and sample cd's produced by commercial developers like Greytsounds, Pyramid, Sweetwater, and others that are leagues ahead of anything you'll find on a Motif. the 64mb Steinway from the Power Tools CD is my primary piano, and sounds better than the SRX-02 for Fantom users.

If you're trying to save money or space, I'd suggest the Fantom series for quickly being able to compose your song (the visual arpegiattor is what sold me), but a Kurzweil K2xxx rack / or Triton rack /or Motif rack for expanding your range of tones. the programmability of the Kurzweil VAST system is perhaps more powerful than Roland's architecture, but sadly under-utilized and misunderstood.

---
Desperate times call for desperate measures.

Check out my site: www.lo-res.com
vintage synth rescue kits, logic screen shots, and more!
fanoftom
Posts: 23
Joined: 20:49, 25 June 2004
Location: ENGLAND

Re: Kurzweil K2661

Post by fanoftom »

Hi jsepeta!
Thanks for all that info! I can't believe how helpful you guys are on this site!
I listened to some orchestral demos of the orchestral board for the kurzweil series. I am very, very impressed! I reckon these are some of the best orchestral demos I've heard on a keyboard. Lovely classical guitar too! I'll still keep my fantom X as it is fully expanded but I have a cash flow problem at the moment so things are not looking too good!
Do you know if the internal specs of the American kurzweils (PC2 and K2661) are the same as the UK models? Are there differences with the power supply and the internals as I believe there would be implications if there was a repair needed!! I don't really understand technical issues. I'm just a flute player who composes on keyboards and dabbles in singing!!
daztickle
Posts: 13
Joined: 17:03, 9 November 2004
Location: manchester, england

My Choice

Post by daztickle »

Hi all,

I am a gigging musician in a covers band, I have just bought a fantom x6, to replace my korg X3 my main board however is a Kurzweil PC2X, which itself replaced a k2500x about a year ago (too many repairs needed on the k2500x!!).
The PC2x is an awesome keyboard with the best acoustic and electric piano sounds ive heard on a keyboard. However the palette is a little limited, and thats where the fantom comes in.
Kurzweil sounds are awesome, and in some areas it beats a fantom hands down, in others the fantom excels.
Reliability on kurzweils has always been doubtfull, i had my k2500x for about 9 years and from about 2 years on it started to get tempramental, the pc2x however seems more solidly built.
Also some genius in germany has come up with an editor for the pc2 which makes it almost as programmable as a k2661, with a few less features obviously, but there are now some pc2x patches available to purchase!! including a fantsatic FM set.
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