only 2 live sets and 2 tones is this right?

[shaneblyth]

I have been a little confused with a few sounds i put together in a registration but I think I now understand and have found a major limitation.

It seemed some of the live set sounds i had made where not available everywhere and I thought I was going mad. Ill give you an example:

I created a bass live set sound and saved it at 2336 I wanted to use this sound in another reg I had but it was not in the list in that sound. Strange I thought. Then I noticed that the upper and lower sounds seemed to have access to live sets and the Precussion area and solo only said Tones not live sets. So My registration I was trying to create had a acoustic piano liveset in upper and string live set in the lower, these are layered on the top section of the keyboard and allows me to mix or turn off the strings as I play on the fly. I put the split with the bass in the percussion area in the lower section of the keyboard but it doesnt allow livset sounds only tones. I'm not using the solo area in this reg. So If I have this correct you can only use 2 live sets at a time (upper and lower parts) and 2 tones (solo and r perc parts). Is there away around this as you can see this is a pretty basic idea 2 layered live sets and a bass split. I dont like the bass tones particularly I have to choose from in the perc area and if I create a liveset with piano and strings I cant mix the strings or turn them off in a registration without going into the edit mode while i'm trying to play live which is ridiculous to expect on a performance keyboard. This is another reason why i am seriously thinking of selling my JP80 for a more standard keyboard with more mulitimbral capabilities.
Someone please tell me I'm wrong!

[tnicoson]

Shane

You are correct. Only the Upper and Lower parts can hold one Liveset each with up to four tones in each Liveset, plus one tone each in the Solo and Perc parts for a total of ten tones. See the figure on the upper half of Page 12 in your manual. My JP50 allows only one four-tone Liveset in the Upper part, one tone in the Solo part, and one tone in either the Perc or the Lower part. Perc and Lower can not both be used at the same time on the JP50. This gives me a total of only six tones, but since I have only half the polyphony, I guess something had to give somewhere. I am sorry I can not answer your question about the Liveset switching during live performance. I have yet to try that and am not sure the 50 and 80 would work the same in that respect. Hopefully one of the other JP80 owners will be able to help you with that. One way around your dilemma may be to create two or three Registrations - one with piano only, one with piano and strings, and one with strings only (if necessary), and then just switch between Registrations during your live performance. I know, it sounds wasteful, but I have always found that true of registrations to some extent on most keyboards.

Regards,

Ted

[shaneblyth]

thanks as a performance synth I bought into the idea that both my hands are busy on the keys and the sliders and on off switches for parts can be hit and nudged in a split second, any longer as in trying to hit a touch screen accurately takes was too long and is an inaccuarte target on a dark stage with lots going on so it sounds like layers are the go that are adjustable but dont think about trying to adjust AND have a split with a decent sound on it. It's just too limiting unless someone has another way round this basic setup that I've missed

[MartyM]

Hi Shane,

Am I right in reading that you are using 2 x live sets to do just Piano & Strings ?
That's 8 tones used up right way, I have setup 1 x live set which has : Acoustic piano/Rhodes
/soft pad and a string patch too.
That can be setup to be split anywhere and from the live set edit I can rebalance &
turn on/off any part of that.
Wouldn't that be a more efficient way to set up your sound or do you really need 8 tones
of sounds to do that ??

Sorry if I read your post incorrectly but it seems like you are painting yourself into a corner and
taking it out on the JP80..... 10 tones really should be enough to get you almost any split/layer
that you desire .... within reason !
My Triton Extreme CAN offer up to 16 presets in a split/layer but it would run out of polyphony
VERY quickly and I never used more that 4-6 in any "Combi" = 4 to 6 "Tones" in Roland speak.

Doing what I suggest will leave the other live set free for you AND the solo/perc tones free
also .....
Does this help ?

Regards,
Marty.

[shaneblyth]

Hi Shane,

Am I right in reading that you are using 2 x live sets to do just Piano & Strings ?
That's 8 tones used up right way, I have setup 1 x live set which has : Acoustic piano/Rhodes
/soft pad and a string patch too.
That can be setup to be split anywhere and from the live set edit I can rebalance &
turn on/off any part of that.
Wouldn't that be a more efficient way to set up your sound or do you really need 8 tones
of sounds to do that ??

Sorry if I read your post incorrectly but it seems like you are painting yourself into a corner and
taking it out on the JP80..... 10 tones really should be enough to get you almost any split/layer
that you desire .... within reason !
My Triton Extreme CAN offer up to 16 presets in a split/layer but it would run out of polyphony
VERY quickly and I never used more that 4-6 in any "Combi" = 4 to 6 "Tones" in Roland speak.

Doing what I suggest will leave the other live set free for you AND the solo/perc tones free
also .....
Does this help ?

Regards,
Marty.

it was just i thought you could use a live set on all 4 parts, perc, lower and upper and solo, didnt realise till then it was only tones. Its the fact the there is no on the fly control inside a live set from the front panel controls over the balance, Yes I said on the fly i know inside the liveset you can access this easily but not in a performance it's too impractical. So yes I need a different way to approach it my bass livset uses 2 tones and my piano uses 2 tones (acoustic and rhodes which i turn on and off a mix different at different parts of some songs) my strings uses 2 tones.) I like to use lots of layers and use the buttons to pop them in and out or sliders to adjust in the middle of songs. Again this is in a live gig thats just how we roll. I wasnt really taking it out on the Jupiter it was that I had been approaching things a certain way and got frustrated and then found out why. Like a lot of things I'll have to reprogram my brain and hence my approach for this to work in a live gig.

[SoundworldA.D.]

Since you are just using 2-tones each for the keys and string sounds, if you can still get the piano and strings to sound the way you want them to (with effects), you could build an Upper Live Set where your piano and Rhodes are in tone slots 1 & 2, and the strings are in slots 3 & 4. That way, once you are in edit mode for the Upper Live Set, you would have independent control over on and off as well as levels for those 4 tones with the front panel Part buttons and sliders.

JP_80 Part Balance.jpg (5.81 KiB) Viewed 2525 times

That would leave the Lower Live Set open for your fat bass sound if it uses 2 or more tones.

[shaneblyth]

OK success on a bunch of fronts. Yah! Spent a couple of hours on it and managed to get my strings to one tone and throw it in the solo area which freed things up a bit and massaged a few things around and i am getting the control i need now and have had an oooh type of moment where there is something else wrong in the way I was approaching things and can find ways to function differently. It has been bugging me in the back of my mind for a while now but I'd not realised i was getting a concept wrong. It's funny you read the manual a few times but until you actually hit that problem you don't realise what you missed in it. Assumptions are wonderful if they are right but when you make a fundamental mistake in your understanding like me..... I am really finding the JP 80 to be both frustrating and wonderful. Reading the thread where Kevin said he hated a bunch of things and didn't get it and those interesting great replies helped me take a harder look at my approach and as said I was the problem no the 80. I cant expect a new design to think and function the way an old design did. Sometimes I think it would be great to erase the old memories and start fresh so we arn't trying to instinctively do alot of things the way we always had. You wrestle with it and then realise it's going to win and find you have really been wrestling against yourself. You don't realise it sometimes. Thanks for peoples input it's made me step back and come at it in a different way. The Jupiter 80's way. You young guys probably don't get that but at 55 theirs a lot of muscle memory in the brain going on here that pushes you in certain directions.

[SoundworldA.D.]

You young guys probably don't get that but at 55 theirs a lot of muscle memory in the brain going on here that pushes you in certain directions.

Whoa there young skywalker! Who you callin' young there mate?! I've got a year on ya at least and the old memory maybe ain't what it used to be, but the old explorer in me still has got the get up and go!

I was at first complaining about the remote keyboard MIDI "limitations" and the fact that it took up 4 MIDI channels, but once I figured out a work-around (using both MIDI 1 +2 on my MC-80 sequencer) the Jupiter-80 has been a stone groove!

Glad you figured it out SB. It's quite a machine once you wrap your head around the rather unusual architecture.

[shaneblyth]

You young guys probably don't get that but at 55 theirs a lot of muscle memory in the brain going on here that pushes you in certain directions.

Whoa there young skywalker! Who you callin' young there mate?! I've got a year on ya at least and the old memory maybe ain't what it used to be, but the old explorer in me still has got the get up and go!

I was at first complaining about the remote keyboard MIDI "limitations" and the fact that it took up 4 MIDI channels, but once I figured out a work-around (using both MIDI 1 +2 on my MC-80 sequencer) the Jupiter-80 has been a stone groove!

Glad you figured it out SB. It's quite a machine once you wrap your head around the rather unusual architecture.

Haha yeah I havnt had the board long you give me hope old one

[MartyM]

Thanks for peoples input it's made me step back and come at it in a different way. The Jupiter 80's way. You young guys probably don't get that but at 55 theirs a lot of muscle memory in the brain going on here that pushes you in certain directions.

Same here .... I'm only a few years behind you mate !! :-)

Glad to have been some small help, I knew there was a way to get what "you" want from it.

I am very rarely using more than 1 live set and when I do, they don't have more than 2 tones
within each .... too much "MUD" for me otherwise.
But then, I don't use the JP live, it's just for studio/composition work.
The band I work for live has a complete "system" and I couldn't "Lug" the JP around, it's
much too heavy .... I have a Juno Stage for that purpose :-)

Enjoy, Marty.

[shaneblyth]

Thanks for peoples input it's made me step back and come at it in a different way. The Jupiter 80's way. You young guys probably don't get that but at 55 theirs a lot of muscle memory in the brain going on here that pushes you in certain directions.

Same here .... I'm only a few years behind you mate !! :-)

Glad to have been some small help, I knew there was a way to get what "you" want from it.

I am very rarely using more than 1 live set and when I do, they don't have more than 2 tones
within each .... too much "MUD" for me otherwise.
But then, I don't use the JP live, it's just for studio/composition work.
The band I work for live has a complete "system" and I couldn't "Lug" the JP around, it's
much too heavy .... I have a Juno Stage for that purpose :-)

Enjoy, Marty.

cheers Everything I do is based round live playing even if it is sitting at home having fun. I just like to improvise everything and often have no idea whats going to come out when i play so a very versatile unit is very important for me hence the attraction from Rolands description as a "performance Synth"