I should be clear that I am a Libertarian and did not vote for George Bush.
I am not a "Bush Fan", by any stretch. I find many aspects of his administration troubling.
I do - however - think that if you are going to criticize someone, it should be based upon an informed, logical and reasonable rendering of the facts.
What about America and the world?
dansgold said: Not unless you completely disengage your brai
dansgold, you need to watch your language mate, and need to be more respectful with people you don't know. I have got a medical science degree amongst other post-grad qualifications, have been lecturing at University on medical/health issues for over ten years and have been working as a licensed Acupuncturist in my own Clinic for over fifteen years, specializing on depression and drug recovery.
Its a common knowledge amongst people who 'learned the proper use of their brain' that our society is led down the drain by pharmaceutical companies who seemed to be associated with the government. I don't know where you got your information from and I am beginning to question your authority or expertise in this matter, but I truly trust my source.
Yours in the name of self-understanding, judgment and love - the attributes of healthy frontal lobes.
Its a common knowledge amongst people who 'learned the proper use of their brain' that our society is led down the drain by pharmaceutical companies who seemed to be associated with the government. I don't know where you got your information from and I am beginning to question your authority or expertise in this matter, but I truly trust my source.
Yours in the name of self-understanding, judgment and love - the attributes of healthy frontal lobes.
Re: What about America and the world?
Your source is factually incorrect. The current President and Vice President are not on the board of Eli Lilly, and never have been. This can be readily confirmed from a variety of authoritative sources. Whether or not you accept this reality is beyond my ability to correct, absent your willingness to accept it.
You may well understand my ire at reading such statements, given that they have zero basis in reality or fact.
I think the notion "that our society is led down the drain by pharmaceutical companies who seemed to be associated with the government" is a matter of opinion that some hold. It can rightly be called a "popular opinion", but it's not "common knowledge" in the usual sense of that phrase.
It's true that drug companies are closely associated with government entities. They have to be, as they are tightly regulated by law. Every aspect of their business is subject to some kind of government oversight or regulation, and they have no choice in this regard.
This creates an environment where the drug companies must be more responsive to the dictates of government committees, rather than the demands of sound medicine and business practices. It's a case of the road to hell being paved with good intentions. A wise person once said "Do not make evil the only means of survival, and then expect people to remain good". I wish they were not so tightly "associated", if you catch my meaning correctly. I doubt that they have the power to lead the entire society down the drain, however. That's just gross exageration and hyperbole.
I'm certain that you must apply better standards of evidence and reason to the practice of medicine than you have demonstrated here. If I've insulted you, please accept my apologies. In return, I'd ask that you check your sources more carefully before spreading demonstrably false information.
Further, my "Not unless you completely disengage your brain ..." statement is obviously dependent upon the antecedent cases. So, unless you believe that Al Gore actually is trying to brainwash youth through sublimnal iPod messages, etc. ... it obviously doesn't apply to you.
Given your level of education, you ought to know better.
You may well understand my ire at reading such statements, given that they have zero basis in reality or fact.
I think the notion "that our society is led down the drain by pharmaceutical companies who seemed to be associated with the government" is a matter of opinion that some hold. It can rightly be called a "popular opinion", but it's not "common knowledge" in the usual sense of that phrase.
It's true that drug companies are closely associated with government entities. They have to be, as they are tightly regulated by law. Every aspect of their business is subject to some kind of government oversight or regulation, and they have no choice in this regard.
This creates an environment where the drug companies must be more responsive to the dictates of government committees, rather than the demands of sound medicine and business practices. It's a case of the road to hell being paved with good intentions. A wise person once said "Do not make evil the only means of survival, and then expect people to remain good". I wish they were not so tightly "associated", if you catch my meaning correctly. I doubt that they have the power to lead the entire society down the drain, however. That's just gross exageration and hyperbole.
I'm certain that you must apply better standards of evidence and reason to the practice of medicine than you have demonstrated here. If I've insulted you, please accept my apologies. In return, I'd ask that you check your sources more carefully before spreading demonstrably false information.
Further, my "Not unless you completely disengage your brain ..." statement is obviously dependent upon the antecedent cases. So, unless you believe that Al Gore actually is trying to brainwash youth through sublimnal iPod messages, etc. ... it obviously doesn't apply to you.
Given your level of education, you ought to know better.
Re: What about America and the world?
dansgold, the connection between drug companies and government is well documented, not only in our profession, but also publicly via numerous respected books, in-particular 'The Anti-Depressant Fact Book' by Peter Breggin M.D. (refer page 54 in regards to the Bush quote).
After being in therapy for over twenty years I have observed an alarming decline in the health of Western society. This observation is shared amongst other Health Professionals, in-particular those who use the Chinese Medical Model as a diagnostic reference. Drug companies are taking advantage of the Health dilemma and instead of improving the presenting situation actually worsen it. On the other hand, the connection between drug companies and the government allows for all sorts of speculations, especially in respect to the ethics demonstrated by the current government.
dansgold, my initial comment taps into extreme grey territory were there is no proof available for the common man. However, my observations and the research of highly respected professionals such as Dr Breggin has made me conclude that there is more going on than meets the eye. I truly stand for my comment and I hope that there are some who take notice of it and are willing to take action to improve their health and thus to improve the state of the planet.
You are always triggered by the lack of technical know-how of newcomers to this forum due to your in-depth knowledge and many years of experience. I am also triggered by the lack of 'health' understanding due to my many years of training, research and in-depth involvement.
After being in therapy for over twenty years I have observed an alarming decline in the health of Western society. This observation is shared amongst other Health Professionals, in-particular those who use the Chinese Medical Model as a diagnostic reference. Drug companies are taking advantage of the Health dilemma and instead of improving the presenting situation actually worsen it. On the other hand, the connection between drug companies and the government allows for all sorts of speculations, especially in respect to the ethics demonstrated by the current government.
dansgold, my initial comment taps into extreme grey territory were there is no proof available for the common man. However, my observations and the research of highly respected professionals such as Dr Breggin has made me conclude that there is more going on than meets the eye. I truly stand for my comment and I hope that there are some who take notice of it and are willing to take action to improve their health and thus to improve the state of the planet.
You are always triggered by the lack of technical know-how of newcomers to this forum due to your in-depth knowledge and many years of experience. I am also triggered by the lack of 'health' understanding due to my many years of training, research and in-depth involvement.
-
The Un-dr.
- Posts: 215
- Joined: 07:37, 1 February 2005
- Location: St. Paul, MN
Re: What about America and the world?
dansgold,
Well, by your own standards, we should not believe anything you say. Why? Because your data isn't reliable. Now, I actually don't believe we should discount everything you say based on mistakes, but that's the standard you seem to profess with your blasts. If that's not what you intend, O.K., but that's how you come off IMHO.
Why engage someone with that style?! Libertarian or not, I believe you've been duped on Iraq.
Anyway, on the claim by Bush and Co. that "Saddam kicked the inspectors out"--that's a myth. Hans Blix himself did not give up hope that inspections could avert war until Assistant Secretary of State John Wolf "phoned and told us 'you better move out.'" He recently wrote, "I feel that the most important thing that could have happened is if the US had allowed the inspections to go on at all the sites that they claimed had weapons of mass destruction. Perhaps it would have dawned on them that their intelligence was not so good."
As for the reason we knew he used to have WMD [prior to 1991, not after]? We had the receipts!
My advice is learn the history and the context and you'll see that this "Saddam is Hitler and needs to be attacked at the cost of thousands of innocent lives [the new version of "we had to destroy the village to save it" from 'Nam]" reasoning is bunk.
As for it being a "lie"? Well, the smoking gun has been discovered "if you've been paying attention." The British have disclosed a memo detailing the planning the neocons were undertaking which included making the intelligence fit the long-held policy of taking Saddam out and occupying Iraq. There is certainly plenty more information prior to this disclosure to demonstrate the lies of the Bush team, but this pretty much closes the book on the matter (of course, the corporate-owned mainstream press in the U.S. is ignoring it).
'Nuff said.
High crimes and misdemeanors, anyone?!
Well, by your own standards, we should not believe anything you say. Why? Because your data isn't reliable. Now, I actually don't believe we should discount everything you say based on mistakes, but that's the standard you seem to profess with your blasts. If that's not what you intend, O.K., but that's how you come off IMHO.
Why engage someone with that style?! Libertarian or not, I believe you've been duped on Iraq.
Anyway, on the claim by Bush and Co. that "Saddam kicked the inspectors out"--that's a myth. Hans Blix himself did not give up hope that inspections could avert war until Assistant Secretary of State John Wolf "phoned and told us 'you better move out.'" He recently wrote, "I feel that the most important thing that could have happened is if the US had allowed the inspections to go on at all the sites that they claimed had weapons of mass destruction. Perhaps it would have dawned on them that their intelligence was not so good."
As for the reason we knew he used to have WMD [prior to 1991, not after]? We had the receipts!
My advice is learn the history and the context and you'll see that this "Saddam is Hitler and needs to be attacked at the cost of thousands of innocent lives [the new version of "we had to destroy the village to save it" from 'Nam]" reasoning is bunk.
As for it being a "lie"? Well, the smoking gun has been discovered "if you've been paying attention." The British have disclosed a memo detailing the planning the neocons were undertaking which included making the intelligence fit the long-held policy of taking Saddam out and occupying Iraq. There is certainly plenty more information prior to this disclosure to demonstrate the lies of the Bush team, but this pretty much closes the book on the matter (of course, the corporate-owned mainstream press in the U.S. is ignoring it).
'Nuff said.
High crimes and misdemeanors, anyone?!
- on pharmacutical companies
Monetary bonuses Psychiatrists and GP's alike recieve from those companies for the greater prescriptions written for the use of their products, out weighs any doubts they may have of the benefits vs sideeffects of these drugs.
Many from the general public walk in with a complaint of depression and walk out with a perscription for olanzapine (anti-psychotic) or sodium valporate (mood stabliser). Their minds, more often than not become numb and will not recover if they stop igesting these drugs.
The brain will be overloaded with dopeamine
Try 5 or 10 mg's of olanzipine with 1000mg's of sodium valporate and tell me how you feel. Now take it every day. In three months tell the doctor you feel depressed, then begin your run on prozac. 2 months later mention you shake reagularly, you get a perscription for benzotropine (cogentin or, parkinsons medication) at age 23. one pill leads to another bonus. Now your taking 4 different types of medication any more problems they add a intramuscular anti-psychotic.
The chances of recovery are near 0 by this point. I have worked in a Psychiatric hospital and a Mental Health Club House. From my discussions with people (patients), Psychiatrists (a vast majority) are demorilizing to ones self confidence and esteem, and are not doctors but legal drug pushers, who will summons people for intramuscular injections at reagular intervals, (like zuclopentixol another anti-psychotic), continually prescribe without regard for the damage being done to ones neurons, or the impact on others within society or the failing health systems. All this for a job security and a larger pay packet and dinner with the local MP (member of parliment) once a year.
You might be lucky at recieve the treatment of ECT (Electro Convulsive Shock Therapy) YOu'll be starved for tweleve hours shackled down and be electrcuted.
Either the drug or ECT both are great forms of mind control.
This is not to mention pregnant women who have Psyciatrists insit they take mood stablizers and anti-depressants while pregnant. Telling these women 'they are in grave danger without the medication'. Then a child has these chemicals in their blood at birth, has minimal amounts in the breast milk. Then with withdrawl the child will develop a need for the medication for the rest of their life should they have children, the process is repeated, if this civilization is still here in five generations how many will be under the influence of these companies.
Many from the general public walk in with a complaint of depression and walk out with a perscription for olanzapine (anti-psychotic) or sodium valporate (mood stabliser). Their minds, more often than not become numb and will not recover if they stop igesting these drugs.
The brain will be overloaded with dopeamine
Try 5 or 10 mg's of olanzipine with 1000mg's of sodium valporate and tell me how you feel. Now take it every day. In three months tell the doctor you feel depressed, then begin your run on prozac. 2 months later mention you shake reagularly, you get a perscription for benzotropine (cogentin or, parkinsons medication) at age 23. one pill leads to another bonus. Now your taking 4 different types of medication any more problems they add a intramuscular anti-psychotic.
The chances of recovery are near 0 by this point. I have worked in a Psychiatric hospital and a Mental Health Club House. From my discussions with people (patients), Psychiatrists (a vast majority) are demorilizing to ones self confidence and esteem, and are not doctors but legal drug pushers, who will summons people for intramuscular injections at reagular intervals, (like zuclopentixol another anti-psychotic), continually prescribe without regard for the damage being done to ones neurons, or the impact on others within society or the failing health systems. All this for a job security and a larger pay packet and dinner with the local MP (member of parliment) once a year.
You might be lucky at recieve the treatment of ECT (Electro Convulsive Shock Therapy) YOu'll be starved for tweleve hours shackled down and be electrcuted.
Either the drug or ECT both are great forms of mind control.
This is not to mention pregnant women who have Psyciatrists insit they take mood stablizers and anti-depressants while pregnant. Telling these women 'they are in grave danger without the medication'. Then a child has these chemicals in their blood at birth, has minimal amounts in the breast milk. Then with withdrawl the child will develop a need for the medication for the rest of their life should they have children, the process is repeated, if this civilization is still here in five generations how many will be under the influence of these companies.
Re: What about America and the world?
RE: " ... Well, by your own standards, we should not believe anything you say. Why? Because your data isn't reliable. ..."
Really? Care to detail anything factually untrue that I have stated in this thread?
The claim of inspectors being "kicked out" on multiple occassions, is not a myth, it is a matter of public record. You are perhaps refering to some isolated case where such a claim was made eroneously, but that's not the entire story. If I catch you in the act of stealing 100 times, but falsly accuse you in one other case ... that hardly makes you innocent of all charges. Get it?
I'd like to a link to a reliable source detailing this British "smoking gun" memo please. Otherwise, I have to conclude that it's just another rumor being presented as fact.
Really? Care to detail anything factually untrue that I have stated in this thread?
The claim of inspectors being "kicked out" on multiple occassions, is not a myth, it is a matter of public record. You are perhaps refering to some isolated case where such a claim was made eroneously, but that's not the entire story. If I catch you in the act of stealing 100 times, but falsly accuse you in one other case ... that hardly makes you innocent of all charges. Get it?
I'd like to a link to a reliable source detailing this British "smoking gun" memo please. Otherwise, I have to conclude that it's just another rumor being presented as fact.
Re: What about America and the world?
Jost said: " ... dansgold, my initial comment taps into extreme grey territory were there is no proof available for the common man. ..."
Jost, that's just completely disingenuous on a grand scale. Your initial comment in this thread was:
" ... George Bush and Vice President are on board of Directors of Eli Lilly and Co. ..."
That statement is demonstrably false. There is no "grey area" - extreme or otherwise - in this regard. It is a matter of public record. You can visit Eli Lilly's website and see their governamce clearly listed - no Bush or Cheney on that list. You can call a stock broker and receive the same information. You can contact the Securities & Exchange Commisison, and they will verify the same. Neither the President or VP have ever been on the board of Eli Lilly, and this is an unassailable fact.
Your reference from page 54 of Peter Breggin's book states the following " ... President George Bush had been on the board of directors of Eli Lilly and Co. ..." This of course refers to the fact that the senior George HW Bush, not the current President, had served on EL's board at one time. NOT the current President, and no reference to VP Cheney at all. So it appears that you not only don't have your facts straight, but are making up things as well.
Your inability to concede this point in the face of overwhelming evidence calls into question your ability to discuss the subject rationaly.
I think this is important precisely because I agree with much of what you have to say about the dangers of Prozac and other drugs within that broad range. As a medical professional, your opinion should carry some weight in this regard. If you cannot get your facts straight, your authority is undercut, and intelligent people have cause to disregard your opinion as that of a nutcase. This is especially the case when you engage in "conspiracy theory" nonsense. Since I agree with your concerns about Prozac, I'd rather that you didn't come off that way!
There is good enough reason to be concerned about the state of the medical profession (and the drug companies specifically) without resorting to such fatally flawed and ridiculous tactics. A good diagnostician knows how to decouple irrelevant data.
Jost, that's just completely disingenuous on a grand scale. Your initial comment in this thread was:
" ... George Bush and Vice President are on board of Directors of Eli Lilly and Co. ..."
That statement is demonstrably false. There is no "grey area" - extreme or otherwise - in this regard. It is a matter of public record. You can visit Eli Lilly's website and see their governamce clearly listed - no Bush or Cheney on that list. You can call a stock broker and receive the same information. You can contact the Securities & Exchange Commisison, and they will verify the same. Neither the President or VP have ever been on the board of Eli Lilly, and this is an unassailable fact.
Your reference from page 54 of Peter Breggin's book states the following " ... President George Bush had been on the board of directors of Eli Lilly and Co. ..." This of course refers to the fact that the senior George HW Bush, not the current President, had served on EL's board at one time. NOT the current President, and no reference to VP Cheney at all. So it appears that you not only don't have your facts straight, but are making up things as well.
Your inability to concede this point in the face of overwhelming evidence calls into question your ability to discuss the subject rationaly.
I think this is important precisely because I agree with much of what you have to say about the dangers of Prozac and other drugs within that broad range. As a medical professional, your opinion should carry some weight in this regard. If you cannot get your facts straight, your authority is undercut, and intelligent people have cause to disregard your opinion as that of a nutcase. This is especially the case when you engage in "conspiracy theory" nonsense. Since I agree with your concerns about Prozac, I'd rather that you didn't come off that way!
There is good enough reason to be concerned about the state of the medical profession (and the drug companies specifically) without resorting to such fatally flawed and ridiculous tactics. A good diagnostician knows how to decouple irrelevant data.
Re: What about America and the world?
it is actually impossible to discuss things in government or buisness that is considered classified. the reason is that public record is entered only for posteritys sake. I mean geez guys. how can we be sure that anything we hear is true... disinformation and propaganda are flowing freely by the Media. The media no longer reports unbiased facts, but is built around sensationalisim. The very scary possibility is, that very few if any actually know for a fact what is, or was, going on. If you have any common sense you will see this,
marines are breifed on only what they need to know, which may be completely false information to facilitate the execution of the mission.
the commanding officer may or may not be given correct information so that the breifing will be beleivable and tangible
The military may be given incorrect information that is plausible and gives reasonable beleivablility.
the intelligence personell may or may not choose to release the actual facts that they receive based on the game plan that is being setup.
congress votes laws into being that are introduced by subversives that have corporate contacts that are attached to the intel comunity...
so who actually knows
... plus add in professionally written speeches and spin doctors, news media propaganda, lobbyists and corporate subterfuge.
so who really knows whats goin on... if you repeat a lie often enough soon everyone beleives it...
I am not arguing anything just thinking out loud.. so no need to argue my point of veiw ... its irrelevant.. because I havnt a clue whats goin on...
JC THE MC...
marines are breifed on only what they need to know, which may be completely false information to facilitate the execution of the mission.
the commanding officer may or may not be given correct information so that the breifing will be beleivable and tangible
The military may be given incorrect information that is plausible and gives reasonable beleivablility.
the intelligence personell may or may not choose to release the actual facts that they receive based on the game plan that is being setup.
congress votes laws into being that are introduced by subversives that have corporate contacts that are attached to the intel comunity...
so who actually knows
... plus add in professionally written speeches and spin doctors, news media propaganda, lobbyists and corporate subterfuge.
so who really knows whats goin on... if you repeat a lie often enough soon everyone beleives it...
I am not arguing anything just thinking out loud.. so no need to argue my point of veiw ... its irrelevant.. because I havnt a clue whats goin on...
JC THE MC...
Re: What about America and the world?
So how 'bout this Fantom thingy; anyone checked it out yet? Seems a pretty hot piece'o'gear to me.
Regards,
Laurenz Nitert
Regards,
Laurenz Nitert
GO Fucking Pistons!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Man, there's so much to say, but I'm going to get consumed by this so I'm just going to say GO PISTONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Smoke Club!
Smoke Club!
Re: What about America and the world?
OK. . . . . I'm going to commit the sin of going off-topic from the subject of the thread. . . . . . just this one time, honest.
To The Czar: If you can't stand the HEAT, then you gotta leave the kitchen!
How about Ms. Wade's boy. ?. . . !. . . .
Bassman
To The Czar: If you can't stand the HEAT, then you gotta leave the kitchen!
How about Ms. Wade's boy. ?. . . !. . . .
Bassman
Re: What about America and the world?
I want to know why I can't save rhythm patterns or rhythm groups to my PC card ?
Unanswered thread.
Unanswered thread.
Re: What about America and the world?
craigo: It's because George Bush conspired to make the Fantom unable to save Rhythm Patterns or Rhythm Groups.
That way you'll become depressed and take Prozac. That will make you so brain dead that you'll stop trying to make your own music and just listen your iPod, which has embedded sublimal messages making you crave Tyson Chicken.
Something like that.
That way you'll become depressed and take Prozac. That will make you so brain dead that you'll stop trying to make your own music and just listen your iPod, which has embedded sublimal messages making you crave Tyson Chicken.
Something like that.
Re: What about America and the world?
Didn't i closed this thread about 30 messages ago?? 