I have been trying to load and save songs
but its seem that every time i come to load a song the fantomx insists on loading ALL!!! samples with the song even if i am only using one sample out of the the entire collection??
This means that i have to wait just as long to load one song regardless of how short it is (even if its just a patern with one sample) as i would have to wait if i want to load a song that used a full 500 mbs of wavs??
(no wonder the fantomx slowwwsss down every time im using it..???)
How stupid!? is that?
(i have checked that manual and i can find nothing to cotradict this)
i have tryed everything, including unloading all sample from the current song except 1
and saving as song and as song+samples
but every time i come to load
Load song only loads the song with no sample
and load song and samples load song and ALL!! samples
so what happens if i start with a blank fantomx and create another 500 mbs or inexcess of original samples in this session and save song and samples??
then i come to load this song, where will the other samples go??
also if this is true this also means there is a finite! limit to how many samples you can have.
I hope im just missing something here, but if im not!?
i think a major complaint should go to roland>
Results not Excuse`s
loading/saving song?? is this true!??/Stupid?
Re: loading/saving song?? is this true!??/Stupid?
Load song plus samples will always load all samples on the card or user memory. There is no way, except manual, to load samples associated with a song. I know this is a shortcoming, but if you have 10-15 samples per song, marking them manually should not be a problem.
Re: loading/saving song?? is this true!??/Stupid?
"I know this is a shortcoming"
I hope this does not mean you find this acceptable?
you do realise the limitation this is imposing on everyone?
and having all sample in memory at once slows down the fantom,
and just exactly how does roland expect people to keep track of what samples there using in there collection of 1000 tracks and the 1000s of samples listed to be able to select manualy what ones to load?
have you ever tryed to scrol through 1000 samples on the fantom??
Where do roland programers get there brains from?? bargain basement?
Do it manualy?
what do we have computers for if we have to do everything manualy??
"but if you have 10-15 samples per song, marking them manually should not be a problem"
yes it is, because first of all, unless you have spent some time renaming these samples they all show up as Cxxxx where xxxx is a number from 0000 to 9999, secondly since the sample you are looking for is not loaded you cannot preview to hear what it is either, never mind the fact that im being forced to do manualy what should be automated.
this realy sucks! ROLAND!
Results not Excuse`s
I hope this does not mean you find this acceptable?
you do realise the limitation this is imposing on everyone?
and having all sample in memory at once slows down the fantom,
and just exactly how does roland expect people to keep track of what samples there using in there collection of 1000 tracks and the 1000s of samples listed to be able to select manualy what ones to load?
have you ever tryed to scrol through 1000 samples on the fantom??
Where do roland programers get there brains from?? bargain basement?
Do it manualy?
what do we have computers for if we have to do everything manualy??
"but if you have 10-15 samples per song, marking them manually should not be a problem"
yes it is, because first of all, unless you have spent some time renaming these samples they all show up as Cxxxx where xxxx is a number from 0000 to 9999, secondly since the sample you are looking for is not loaded you cannot preview to hear what it is either, never mind the fact that im being forced to do manualy what should be automated.
this realy sucks! ROLAND!
Results not Excuse`s
Re: loading/saving song?? is this true!??/Stupid?
Well.....
Why don't you use smaller flash memory card instead?
That machine won't load 512Mb data from 64 Mb flash card...!!!! DUH..
Most important of all, you bettter organize your work well..
Throwing samples around and save here and there.. it simply will give you big headache no matter what workstation you use. Period.
Try organize your samples too.. Got hype with sexy reviews and collecting tons of samples is just not working well for real time applications.
The same idea applies to computer applications too.
Why don't you use smaller flash memory card instead?
That machine won't load 512Mb data from 64 Mb flash card...!!!! DUH..
Most important of all, you bettter organize your work well..
Throwing samples around and save here and there.. it simply will give you big headache no matter what workstation you use. Period.
Try organize your samples too.. Got hype with sexy reviews and collecting tons of samples is just not working well for real time applications.
The same idea applies to computer applications too.
Re: loading/saving song?? is this true!??/Stupid?
"Why don't you use smaller flash memory card instead"
OH Right!
now im gonna carry around a bunch of smaller flash cards instead of one big one just to suit ROLANDs brain dead programers!?
" Try organize your samples too"
You cant organise on the fantomx, any organising is already pre defined by the program which so far all works well except!!
the user is forced into loading all!! samples even when the song being loaded only uses 1?
So now im organising....
i have imported a 10mb sample
choped in to 20 parts
next time i come to load the project i have to load song
then manualy search through 1000 sample till i get to the end of the list (maybe) then manualy select 20 samples which we will hope have been stored sequencialy and then choose import or load or whatever, and even then your not sure there the correct ones because you cannot preview during this process.
Does this realy sound senseable to anyone to have! to go throung this proceedure in the first place!?
I suppose now if microsoft was to adopt the same attitude we would all be expected to manualy load every font and charactor from a list too and not have it automaticaly load in to the document the formating that was originaly there, and hell!! why dont we just load in all other documents you every created just for the hell of it, i know your not using them but we will load them all just because we couldnt be arsed being efficient in our programming..
Results not Excuse`s
OH Right!
now im gonna carry around a bunch of smaller flash cards instead of one big one just to suit ROLANDs brain dead programers!?
" Try organize your samples too"
You cant organise on the fantomx, any organising is already pre defined by the program which so far all works well except!!
the user is forced into loading all!! samples even when the song being loaded only uses 1?
So now im organising....
i have imported a 10mb sample
choped in to 20 parts
next time i come to load the project i have to load song
then manualy search through 1000 sample till i get to the end of the list (maybe) then manualy select 20 samples which we will hope have been stored sequencialy and then choose import or load or whatever, and even then your not sure there the correct ones because you cannot preview during this process.
Does this realy sound senseable to anyone to have! to go throung this proceedure in the first place!?
I suppose now if microsoft was to adopt the same attitude we would all be expected to manualy load every font and charactor from a list too and not have it automaticaly load in to the document the formating that was originaly there, and hell!! why dont we just load in all other documents you every created just for the hell of it, i know your not using them but we will load them all just because we couldnt be arsed being efficient in our programming..
Results not Excuse`s
Re: loading/saving song?? is this true!??/Stupid?
is there a way around this... what about saving as an svq. ? this is new to me but important because I will be playing live on this board and I dont wanna spend 2 minutes before each song loading samples...LOL
I guess of course if I max the memory then it should not be a problem right... cause I can have them all loaded all the time... that could work... i guess... It would be cool if they added the feature to load samples with songs...only the ones you needed...
Jesus can make your music better
JC THE MC...
I guess of course if I max the memory then it should not be a problem right... cause I can have them all loaded all the time... that could work... i guess... It would be cool if they added the feature to load samples with songs...only the ones you needed...
Jesus can make your music better
JC THE MC...
Re: loading/saving song?? is this true!??/Stupid?
"what about saving as an svq."
the song is automaticaly save as .svq unless you specify SMF
"I guess of course if I max the memory then it should not be a problem right"
Wrong because now your fantoms OS starts to crawl because it does not have enough resources to buffer information through its cpu.
not only that but if your forced to max your memory just so you can play a song that uses only 1 or 2 samples, now lets try to do some resampling....
You cant!! because your maxed out!
and hell!! if its realy that dificult for them to pick out indevidual samples for each song, then they should create a local folder with the name of the song being saved and save all sample in it and then! load DUH! all sample from this folder.
Gawd! if i was a roland manager i would shoot all the programers and do the programming myself!
Results not Excuse`s
the song is automaticaly save as .svq unless you specify SMF
"I guess of course if I max the memory then it should not be a problem right"
Wrong because now your fantoms OS starts to crawl because it does not have enough resources to buffer information through its cpu.
not only that but if your forced to max your memory just so you can play a song that uses only 1 or 2 samples, now lets try to do some resampling....
You cant!! because your maxed out!
and hell!! if its realy that dificult for them to pick out indevidual samples for each song, then they should create a local folder with the name of the song being saved and save all sample in it and then! load DUH! all sample from this folder.
Gawd! if i was a roland manager i would shoot all the programers and do the programming myself!
Results not Excuse`s
Re: loading/saving song?? is this true!??/Stupid?
Hi all.
JC: It does take time to load all the samples into RAM from either USER or CARD storage, so if you have a lot of samples for your performance, I'd strongly suggest loading them all before the beginning of your performance because it could take several minutes, but once all samples are loaded for all songs, you shouldn't have any trouble (as long as you don't turn off your Fantom between songs).
QuinnX: The number of samples loaded into RAM should not slow down the Fantom-X interface, period. If you find that this is the case, there is something wrong and I'd suggest 1) updating to OS 1.01 or 1.03, and, if that doesn't help, 2) contact Roland for repair support because this should not be happening. Also, be sure that you have decent RAM installed. I'd strongly suggest PC133 rather than PC100 DIMMs as it's been reported that PC100 DIMMs will slow down the overall operation of the Fantom (slows clock speed).
As for the inconvenience of sample organization and loading, this is the way it is with all current workstations in general (yes, there are difference in they way samples are organized among workstations, but load times are slow for all). Complaining about the way things are to us is not going to change anything as we don't design these machines.
If you want to complain, talk to Roland. If you want "Results not Excuse`s," ask us direct questions such as "how have you gigging performers learned to work around the sample organizational limitations of the Fantom-X?" or "how have you producers learned to work around the sample organization limitations of the Fantom-X when working with multiple tracks simultaneously?"
Regards,
Nathan Sheldon
http://www.nathansheldon.com/
JC: It does take time to load all the samples into RAM from either USER or CARD storage, so if you have a lot of samples for your performance, I'd strongly suggest loading them all before the beginning of your performance because it could take several minutes, but once all samples are loaded for all songs, you shouldn't have any trouble (as long as you don't turn off your Fantom between songs).
QuinnX: The number of samples loaded into RAM should not slow down the Fantom-X interface, period. If you find that this is the case, there is something wrong and I'd suggest 1) updating to OS 1.01 or 1.03, and, if that doesn't help, 2) contact Roland for repair support because this should not be happening. Also, be sure that you have decent RAM installed. I'd strongly suggest PC133 rather than PC100 DIMMs as it's been reported that PC100 DIMMs will slow down the overall operation of the Fantom (slows clock speed).
As for the inconvenience of sample organization and loading, this is the way it is with all current workstations in general (yes, there are difference in they way samples are organized among workstations, but load times are slow for all). Complaining about the way things are to us is not going to change anything as we don't design these machines.
If you want to complain, talk to Roland. If you want "Results not Excuse`s," ask us direct questions such as "how have you gigging performers learned to work around the sample organizational limitations of the Fantom-X?" or "how have you producers learned to work around the sample organization limitations of the Fantom-X when working with multiple tracks simultaneously?"
Regards,
Nathan Sheldon
http://www.nathansheldon.com/
Re: loading/saving song?? is this true!??/Stupid?
" I'd suggest 1) updating to OS 1.01 or 1.03,"
did this when it was released and currently using it.
"I'd strongly suggest PC133 "
this is what i installed the very 1st day i got the fantomx
"this is the way it is"
That does not mean this is the way its supposed to be or accepted as such.
"Complaining about the way things are to us is not going to change anything as we don't design these machines."
Im not complainig to anyone here im simply highlighting the issue incase anyone else has not seen it as such, and if you read my responce above you will notice i direct it to ROLAND.
If you want to complain, talk to Roland. If you want "Results not Excuse`s,"
if you can give me a direct line of contact i will do exactly that but from my perception, ROLAND seem to be unapproachable either on the web or by phone or email.
ask us direct questions :
Okay...
Why do all you performers accept the stupid! limitations imposed on you by the companies like roland who are quite happy to take your hard earned cash and then make you! beta test a product that has flaws that anyone with brains would tell you should not have been released without fixing the problems in the 1st place.
Results not Excuse`s
ROLAND SUCKS!
did this when it was released and currently using it.
"I'd strongly suggest PC133 "
this is what i installed the very 1st day i got the fantomx
"this is the way it is"
That does not mean this is the way its supposed to be or accepted as such.
"Complaining about the way things are to us is not going to change anything as we don't design these machines."
Im not complainig to anyone here im simply highlighting the issue incase anyone else has not seen it as such, and if you read my responce above you will notice i direct it to ROLAND.
If you want to complain, talk to Roland. If you want "Results not Excuse`s,"
if you can give me a direct line of contact i will do exactly that but from my perception, ROLAND seem to be unapproachable either on the web or by phone or email.
ask us direct questions :
Okay...
Why do all you performers accept the stupid! limitations imposed on you by the companies like roland who are quite happy to take your hard earned cash and then make you! beta test a product that has flaws that anyone with brains would tell you should not have been released without fixing the problems in the 1st place.
Results not Excuse`s
ROLAND SUCKS!
Re: loading/saving song?? is this true!??/Stupid?
QuinnX, what is the goal of your post?
Are you just saying becuase of these limitations (stupidity) Roland sucks. Or do you want to be helped? So people can tell/explain you a workaround etc.
The last thing seems the best one for me because with option number 1 you keep on having a bad feeling and you feel very limited in a way. And with the second option you at least can learn to live with it a little.
I personally think you would rather have a solution than something else. No need to get angry here, all the people here are on your side man!
And as I have read, there were/are many ideas towards Roland to make things better. They just dont seem to listen at times....
Now I cannot help you with this problem becuase a. I own a. Fantom-S and b. I'm new into this stuff!
So who can help QuinnX with this problem?
Is there a workaround, a temporary solution. Or at least something you think is a "solution" to live with this problem?
I'm putting on my flamesuit just in case. Only trying to help here, no burning needed hehehe
Are you just saying becuase of these limitations (stupidity) Roland sucks. Or do you want to be helped? So people can tell/explain you a workaround etc.
The last thing seems the best one for me because with option number 1 you keep on having a bad feeling and you feel very limited in a way. And with the second option you at least can learn to live with it a little.
I personally think you would rather have a solution than something else. No need to get angry here, all the people here are on your side man!
And as I have read, there were/are many ideas towards Roland to make things better. They just dont seem to listen at times....
Now I cannot help you with this problem becuase a. I own a. Fantom-S
and b. I'm new into this stuff! So who can help QuinnX with this problem?
Is there a workaround, a temporary solution. Or at least something you think is a "solution" to live with this problem?
I'm putting on my flamesuit just in case. Only trying to help here, no burning needed
heheheRe: loading/saving song?? is this true!??/Stupid?
I regret to agree with Quinnx, but he's right.
@ Nathan, You are complaining yourself about OS so much these days, and you'r right. They have updated to 1.03 (even not 1.02!) and the bugs are increased instead of decreasing!
Yesterday I decided to send an email to Roland, but I found that there's no e-mail support!!!!!!! and I didn't call them because my english is not really good.
But I ask you Nathan, or Artemio (Art, I will be happy if you reply my post this time! Is there anything bad in my posts that you never reply the questions I have asked you about talking to roland about us?) to call roland and find someone who is in charge of customers (if there is any!) and tell them about their masterpiece in 1.03 update. Tell them what we want, and make them understand this is our RIGHT. Ask them to hire someone in their support team to read this forum regularly (or they can ask Artemio to send feedbacks to them) This can solve 90% percent of our and even their problems: we think for them, we find and report the bugs, we say that how they can make a better keyboard, we say what we want so they can sell more...
Thank you,
Sam
March 14th 1984
Music student at Dalhousie
Fantom-X 7
@ Nathan, You are complaining yourself about OS so much these days, and you'r right. They have updated to 1.03 (even not 1.02!) and the bugs are increased instead of decreasing!
Yesterday I decided to send an email to Roland, but I found that there's no e-mail support!!!!!!! and I didn't call them because my english is not really good.
But I ask you Nathan, or Artemio (Art, I will be happy if you reply my post this time! Is there anything bad in my posts that you never reply the questions I have asked you about talking to roland about us?) to call roland and find someone who is in charge of customers (if there is any!) and tell them about their masterpiece in 1.03 update. Tell them what we want, and make them understand this is our RIGHT. Ask them to hire someone in their support team to read this forum regularly (or they can ask Artemio to send feedbacks to them) This can solve 90% percent of our and even their problems: we think for them, we find and report the bugs, we say that how they can make a better keyboard, we say what we want so they can sell more...
Thank you,
Sam
March 14th 1984
Music student at Dalhousie
Fantom-X 7
Re: loading/saving song?? is this true!??/Stupid?
"what is the goal of your post? "
To hilight the issue and how stupid it is to have such a limitiation in the 1st place and dictate change.
"They just dont seem to listen at times.... "
I would say they listen but dont act on what is being asked by there customers.
I have already had experience of the v-synth and they just buried there head in the sand as i documented here in the very 1st post...
http://www.v-tribe.info/forum/?action=s ... 0&s=0&e=15
" Is there a workaround"
nothing short of alot of work just to make up for rolands brain dead programers.
I think it would good idea for roland to make use of 2 new advisers on there development team to tell them what there doing wrong?
1) an enthusiast to point out there short sightedness, bugs and show them how file systems are suppose to work.
2) a professional musician to help design an efficient interphase.
I say now ROLAND SUCKS because i have now gone through 2 major releases of rolands making, the v-synth and the fantomx and they both have the same failings which i though i was going to avoid when i got the fantomx only to find the same inefficiencies and labourious tendancies in the operating system, especial on the file system.
just how much money must i spend before i get something that works from roland in a sensable and logical manner that does not burden the user/performer and especialy during there creative or performace phase.
Results not Excuse`s
ROLAND SUCKS!
To hilight the issue and how stupid it is to have such a limitiation in the 1st place and dictate change.
"They just dont seem to listen at times.... "
I would say they listen but dont act on what is being asked by there customers.
I have already had experience of the v-synth and they just buried there head in the sand as i documented here in the very 1st post...
http://www.v-tribe.info/forum/?action=s ... 0&s=0&e=15
" Is there a workaround"
nothing short of alot of work just to make up for rolands brain dead programers.
I think it would good idea for roland to make use of 2 new advisers on there development team to tell them what there doing wrong?
1) an enthusiast to point out there short sightedness, bugs and show them how file systems are suppose to work.
2) a professional musician to help design an efficient interphase.
I say now ROLAND SUCKS because i have now gone through 2 major releases of rolands making, the v-synth and the fantomx and they both have the same failings which i though i was going to avoid when i got the fantomx only to find the same inefficiencies and labourious tendancies in the operating system, especial on the file system.
just how much money must i spend before i get something that works from roland in a sensable and logical manner that does not burden the user/performer and especialy during there creative or performace phase.
Results not Excuse`s
ROLAND SUCKS!
-
pianodick
- Posts: 1409
- Joined: 00:28, 17 August 2003
- Location: The heart of the world, Tecumseh, Oklahoma.
Re: loading/saving song?? is this true!??/Stupid?
I don't know about the X but with the S I find that if I am planning to use samples, I leave my smart media card in the slot during start up, ensure that you have the "load samples on start up" set, which takes a long while to start up but at least the samples are loaded when the set starts. That should help with part of your problem. JMIO
"It is not the anticipated and perfectly performed musical note that singles out for recognition any particular musical performance." ©2004 Pianodick
"It is not the anticipated and perfectly performed musical note that singles out for recognition any particular musical performance." ©2004 Pianodick
Re: loading/saving song?? is this true!??/Stupid?
sam_vafaei: of course there's nothing in your posts that would turn me away, don't worry. But I reply mostly to the posts that I see I can help in.
Yes, I do try to point Roland guys to the threads telling about bugs, I also try to provide bug reproduction details and other info. I do it regularly, for almost all bug reports I see here. But not me, not the Roland person I am contacting, can't guarantee anything. I don't have any contacts with the R&D labs, and I am in no way someone resposible for doing this, but I try to do the best things I can.
Roland people _do_ visit and watch this place, I am not sure how often, but they do.
What I want to say is I purchased my FS knowing all it's shortcomings, including the inability to load song-associated samples. But I use it happily for 10 months by now, and this is a dream machine in many respects.
Nothing is perfect - but this has two meanings. The first is that you have to try to be comfortable with what you have, you have to look at the good things. But second is that anything can be improved. Both meanings are true.
Artemio.
Yes, I do try to point Roland guys to the threads telling about bugs, I also try to provide bug reproduction details and other info. I do it regularly, for almost all bug reports I see here. But not me, not the Roland person I am contacting, can't guarantee anything. I don't have any contacts with the R&D labs, and I am in no way someone resposible for doing this, but I try to do the best things I can.
Roland people _do_ visit and watch this place, I am not sure how often, but they do.
What I want to say is I purchased my FS knowing all it's shortcomings, including the inability to load song-associated samples. But I use it happily for 10 months by now, and this is a dream machine in many respects.
Nothing is perfect - but this has two meanings. The first is that you have to try to be comfortable with what you have, you have to look at the good things. But second is that anything can be improved. Both meanings are true.
Artemio.
Re: loading/saving song?? is this true!??/Stupid?
Hi Sam, everyone.
Sam: Yes, I have posted a number of complaints. However, and this is a major difference, my posts are always in reference to a specific procedure with reproducible errors, not general "Roland sucks" complaints. My goal is not so much to emphasize how bad Roland is, but more to confirm the reliability of my own tests and observations. Yes, I also provide commentary (such as "where does Roland get their engineers," etc).
I also agree with you that Roland lacks severely in customer service. I have no contacts at Roland, otherwise I would certainly inform them of the numerous issues I've reported here and which others here have reproduced. As I'm sure you're aware, Sam, calling Roland technical support will get you nowhere as they aren't there so much to take complaints as to teach you how to use the Roland instrument you have. They aren't engineers and aren't qualified (or equipped) to address engineering or programming flaws (it seems Roland intentionally set it up this way).
QuinnX: I agree. It seems Roland needs to invest more resources into maintaining existing products and invest more into initial development.
Do you have any alternate suggestions? If one were to not buy the Fantom-X, then what would you suggest they buy? Are there any alternatives to the Fantom-X? What are your thoughts on the Motif ES or the Triton Extreme? What about the Kurzweil K2661? Software synths?
Regards,
Nathan Sheldon
http://www.nathansheldon.com/
Sam: Yes, I have posted a number of complaints. However, and this is a major difference, my posts are always in reference to a specific procedure with reproducible errors, not general "Roland sucks" complaints. My goal is not so much to emphasize how bad Roland is, but more to confirm the reliability of my own tests and observations. Yes, I also provide commentary (such as "where does Roland get their engineers," etc).
I also agree with you that Roland lacks severely in customer service. I have no contacts at Roland, otherwise I would certainly inform them of the numerous issues I've reported here and which others here have reproduced. As I'm sure you're aware, Sam, calling Roland technical support will get you nowhere as they aren't there so much to take complaints as to teach you how to use the Roland instrument you have. They aren't engineers and aren't qualified (or equipped) to address engineering or programming flaws (it seems Roland intentionally set it up this way).
QuinnX: I agree. It seems Roland needs to invest more resources into maintaining existing products and invest more into initial development.
Do you have any alternate suggestions? If one were to not buy the Fantom-X, then what would you suggest they buy? Are there any alternatives to the Fantom-X? What are your thoughts on the Motif ES or the Triton Extreme? What about the Kurzweil K2661? Software synths?
Regards,
Nathan Sheldon
http://www.nathansheldon.com/