Hi from Turkey;
Why doesn't ROLAND release the special 64 MB ROM of Fantom X ROM on the web site so that Fantom S users can load to the RAM?
It would be very nice have X sounds on S, wouldn't be?
Fantom X ROM on Fantom S RAM
Unlikely to happen
If you look at it from Rolands perspective: If that was available, then why should your customers upgrade from S to X? At least it is one reason less to upgrade, which translates to fewer sales.
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toom driver
- Posts: 131
- Joined: 23:41, 25 July 2003
- Location: UK
Re: Fantom X ROM on Fantom S RAM
Given the speed with which Roland dropped the Fantom S, I won't be in any hurry ever to purchase another Roland product. It seems that they have all but admitted that the Fantom X was what the S should have been, so I feel very strongly that I was used as a beta tester. Less than 6 months after I purchased their new 'Flagship' it was obsolete in their eyes. And I would hesitate to advise anyone to purchase a new Roland product when waiting 6 months will probably get you one at half price. In my view, goodwill is seriously lacking, so they have lost out anyway.
Toom!
Toom!
Re: Fantom X ROM on Fantom S RAM
I feel exactly the same way. I have a Fantom S88 and a Fantom S which I bought from the start. I had really high hopes for growing and expanding with my investments. I gave Roland once last chance, and they left me behind. I bought a new XV-88 when it came out, and lost alot in a very short period of time. Same thing with the original Fantom. How much is the V-synth worth now? They've proven a track record to me - I'm jumping off of the Roland merry-go-round. Too bad for them because I'm always buying new gear.
bb
bb
Re: Fantom X ROM on Fantom S RAM
Couple of things here.........first of all, this wave ROM is hard fought stuff. Lots of engineering and recording getting this stuff together..........just releasing it as samples would be akin to shooting yourself in the foot.........this is valuable property here.
Now, it might make sense to release the new piano sample and some of the wave data on new SRX cards.......obviously an architecture that still has some life left in it. After the X has paid for itself, I wouldn't be surprised to see it released in some fashion.
As far as beta testers.........I'm not sure I agree with that. It was pretty obvious that the original fantom was not in the same league as the triton and motif, and I think that perhaps the S was an attempt to get something to market as quickly as possible. Not a bad job, in my view.
The X was their chance to take a leap past certain elements of the competition, without leaving S owners completely in the dust, IMHO.
And buzzbro, while I appreciate your gear lust, but your syntax is a bit unclear..........you have and S88 and an S? And you had an XV-88? That appears to be the case, what I am unclear about is, did you also have an original Fantom?
In any case, the argument could be made that nobody could keep up with you. That almost qualifies as something akin to a drug addiction
Now, it might make sense to release the new piano sample and some of the wave data on new SRX cards.......obviously an architecture that still has some life left in it. After the X has paid for itself, I wouldn't be surprised to see it released in some fashion.
As far as beta testers.........I'm not sure I agree with that. It was pretty obvious that the original fantom was not in the same league as the triton and motif, and I think that perhaps the S was an attempt to get something to market as quickly as possible. Not a bad job, in my view.
The X was their chance to take a leap past certain elements of the competition, without leaving S owners completely in the dust, IMHO.
And buzzbro, while I appreciate your gear lust, but your syntax is a bit unclear..........you have and S88 and an S? And you had an XV-88? That appears to be the case, what I am unclear about is, did you also have an original Fantom?
In any case, the argument could be made that nobody could keep up with you. That almost qualifies as something akin to a drug addiction
Re: Fantom X ROM on Fantom S RAM
I am a very busy musician who plays with a number of different acts. I need to have more than one setup and I like to keep current with all of my equipment. Like many people I collect things related to my hobby, which is keyboards & musical instruments. It also helps with tax write-offs. Keeping current with gear means buying, selling and trading. I pay attention to resale value and value for the $, as many people do. It’s important to me. I’m sorry but IMO, buying a Fantom-S last year turned out to be not a smart buying decision. Am I allowed to express a non pro-Roland opinion?
MUCSUSN:
[“Couple of things here.........first of all, this wave ROM is hard fought stuff. Lots of engineering and recording getting this stuff together..........just releasing it as samples would be akin to shooting yourself in the foot.........this is valuable property here. “]
Some people would be willing to pay for this. Oh wait, but they want you to buy a whole keyboard instead. They should sell it to us. What is the SRX for? – Playing catch-up later?
[”Now, it might make sense to release the new piano sample and some of the wave data on new SRX cards.......obviously an architecture that still has some life left in it. After the X has paid for itself, I wouldn't be surprised to see it released in some fashion. “]
Again, some people would be willing to PAY for the new piano SRX. That’s what the SRX should be for – support for new sounds and upgrades to us customers. They would get more $ from me if they did this.
[”As far as beta testers.........I'm not sure I agree with that. ………….., and I think that perhaps the S was an attempt to get something to market as quickly as possible…..“]
I’m sorry, but that’s a complete contradiction. Huh?????
[“The X was their chance to take a leap past certain elements of the competition, without leaving S owners completely in the dust, IMHO. “]
They announced the X less than a year later at a LOWER price than the S. You’re entitled to be impressed with that, but I’m not. You might have a hard time finding a FAS owner who feels grateful.
[”In any case, the argument could be made that nobody could keep up with you. That almost qualifies as something akin to a drug addiction”]
I bet you couldn’t keep up with me. Stating your opinion is one thing, but resorting to insults is immature. Do you feel better?
I'm not getting in a pissing match with you. I’m here because I want Roland to read this.
bb
MUCSUSN:
[“Couple of things here.........first of all, this wave ROM is hard fought stuff. Lots of engineering and recording getting this stuff together..........just releasing it as samples would be akin to shooting yourself in the foot.........this is valuable property here. “]
Some people would be willing to pay for this. Oh wait, but they want you to buy a whole keyboard instead. They should sell it to us. What is the SRX for? – Playing catch-up later?
[”Now, it might make sense to release the new piano sample and some of the wave data on new SRX cards.......obviously an architecture that still has some life left in it. After the X has paid for itself, I wouldn't be surprised to see it released in some fashion. “]
Again, some people would be willing to PAY for the new piano SRX. That’s what the SRX should be for – support for new sounds and upgrades to us customers. They would get more $ from me if they did this.
[”As far as beta testers.........I'm not sure I agree with that. ………….., and I think that perhaps the S was an attempt to get something to market as quickly as possible…..“]
I’m sorry, but that’s a complete contradiction. Huh?????
[“The X was their chance to take a leap past certain elements of the competition, without leaving S owners completely in the dust, IMHO. “]
They announced the X less than a year later at a LOWER price than the S. You’re entitled to be impressed with that, but I’m not. You might have a hard time finding a FAS owner who feels grateful.
[”In any case, the argument could be made that nobody could keep up with you. That almost qualifies as something akin to a drug addiction
”]I bet you couldn’t keep up with me. Stating your opinion is one thing, but resorting to insults is immature. Do you feel better?
I'm not getting in a pissing match with you. I’m here because I want Roland to read this.
bb
Re: Fantom X ROM on Fantom S RAM
For not wanting to get into a pissing match with me, you certainly take an interesting tack......
First of all, I was answering the question regarding why wouldn't Roland release it to the website, to be loaded into RAM. I stand by my answer. Of course people would be willing to pay for this. Such is the legacy of the SR-JV and SRX collections. Korg and Yamaha have nowhere close to the patch and wave legacy available on the market, for inclusion into a wide variety of hardware.
Or course people would be willing to pay for the new Piano SRX. Hopefully, Roland will figure out a way to do this. For a company the size of Roland, it probably takes a bit to bring the SRX cards to market, and their is probably some internecine warfare regarding how to dispose of the SRX 02 card..........many variables here, especially in a small privately held company.
A complete contradiction? You have circumvented the entire structure of logic to come to that absolute conclusion. First of all, your ridiculous quote and answer layout leaves out a great deal of context...........I think they made a mistake with the original Fantom, plain and simple. They undershot the target, and not by a little. Again, the internecine politics in a privately held company can play huge swings into these product cycles, and I think the S may very well have been a panic reaction. If you feel like a beta tester, I have no argument with that. I simply don't buy the argument that this was part of their motivation. Minor swings in market forces could have had a major impact in the S's success. I think that their choice of 64 polyphony was a self-inflicted wound, especially among shoppers on the fence. So save you Huh's. I was making a reasonable an arguable point, nothing more, nothing less.
I never said, nor implied, that I was impressed by the release timing of the X. At this point, I am simply ambivalent about it. I have no doubt, however, about Roland's collective corporate need to correct their overall product development and release mistakes. My only solace is that I still have what I purchased fulfilling the need for which it was meant.
I have no idea what you mean by the statement that I couldn't keep up with you. Sorry that you missed the wink at the end of the last sentence. I stand by my argument, however, that in the current evolutionary state of hardware, it would be difficult for a manufacture to keep up with your buying habits and resale expectations.
And, yes, by all means express a non pro-Roland opinion. Would you like me to cut and paste a few of my customer service diatribes against those morons? I think your return message states just as loudly that I should not have expressed an opinion contrary to yours.
There, now I feel better.
First of all, I was answering the question regarding why wouldn't Roland release it to the website, to be loaded into RAM. I stand by my answer. Of course people would be willing to pay for this. Such is the legacy of the SR-JV and SRX collections. Korg and Yamaha have nowhere close to the patch and wave legacy available on the market, for inclusion into a wide variety of hardware.
Or course people would be willing to pay for the new Piano SRX. Hopefully, Roland will figure out a way to do this. For a company the size of Roland, it probably takes a bit to bring the SRX cards to market, and their is probably some internecine warfare regarding how to dispose of the SRX 02 card..........many variables here, especially in a small privately held company.
A complete contradiction? You have circumvented the entire structure of logic to come to that absolute conclusion. First of all, your ridiculous quote and answer layout leaves out a great deal of context...........I think they made a mistake with the original Fantom, plain and simple. They undershot the target, and not by a little. Again, the internecine politics in a privately held company can play huge swings into these product cycles, and I think the S may very well have been a panic reaction. If you feel like a beta tester, I have no argument with that. I simply don't buy the argument that this was part of their motivation. Minor swings in market forces could have had a major impact in the S's success. I think that their choice of 64 polyphony was a self-inflicted wound, especially among shoppers on the fence. So save you Huh's. I was making a reasonable an arguable point, nothing more, nothing less.
I never said, nor implied, that I was impressed by the release timing of the X. At this point, I am simply ambivalent about it. I have no doubt, however, about Roland's collective corporate need to correct their overall product development and release mistakes. My only solace is that I still have what I purchased fulfilling the need for which it was meant.
I have no idea what you mean by the statement that I couldn't keep up with you. Sorry that you missed the wink at the end of the last sentence. I stand by my argument, however, that in the current evolutionary state of hardware, it would be difficult for a manufacture to keep up with your buying habits and resale expectations.
And, yes, by all means express a non pro-Roland opinion. Would you like me to cut and paste a few of my customer service diatribes against those morons? I think your return message states just as loudly that I should not have expressed an opinion contrary to yours.
There, now I feel better.
Re: Fantom X ROM on Fantom S RAM
Wow. Settle down now. Good for you with your big words and corporate philosophies. I have no interest in getting into a debate with some guy on a forum. I’m just a musician trying to make a living and enjoy some payoff from my years of hard work.
I have been buying keyboards for over 20 years, and have the right to my own expectations. I am Roland’s customer & wish to express myself to them, and hopefully they will have an ear for what I have to say.
bb
I have been buying keyboards for over 20 years, and have the right to my own expectations. I am Roland’s customer & wish to express myself to them, and hopefully they will have an ear for what I have to say.
bb
Re: Fantom X ROM on Fantom S RAM
I don't have big words and corporate philosophies. I have a high school diploma and am a retired enlisted man. For someone not interested in a debate, a point by point refutation of my post was an interesting tactic.
And you certainly have a right to your own expectations. Express away.........Roland has their collective head up their ass when it comes to customer service.
And you certainly have a right to your own expectations. Express away.........Roland has their collective head up their ass when it comes to customer service.
Re: Fantom X ROM on Fantom S RAM
Can I play with you guys? =) My 2 cents:
I have been buying (and selling) keyboards for the last 16 years. My first "real" synth was a DX100 - that should give you an idea...
Synthesizers have become much more than what they used to be, and their nature is every day more similar to that of personal computers.
Now, if I take you guys' "dialogue" - that's a nice way to put it... =) - and change the terms "Fantom S" and "Fantom X" to Dell's "Inspiron 8500" and "Inspiron 8600" (laptops, for those who might not know), then it would sound quite silly to be mad at Dell for releasing the 8600 less than a year after the 8500's release. It would also make no sense to complain about the 8600 being cheaper, or about not being able to get much money for the 8500 when trying to sell it.
A synthesizer (just like computers) has never been much of an investment (and nowadays it's even less). You buy it for what it can do for you. If the value meets the price, then you've got yourself a deal. If it's cheaper a week later, then so be it - you still paid what it was worth TO YOU. And just as with computers, you can always wait for the next improved, expanded, cheaper model, but the same thing is gonna happen with that one, and the next, and the next.
Now, going back to the analogy with computers, if a computer manufacturer takes too long to release a new model, it gets eaten alive by the competition. My opinion (and remember that opinions are JUST opinions, and they can't be right or wrong) is that Roland is adopting a marketing approach very similar to the computer market. If the current trend (to make synthesizers more like computers) continues, eventually other manufacturers (read Yamaha and Korg) will follow.
If you're happy with your synth today, the fact of a newer and more capable synth coming up tomorrow shouldn't make you unhappy all of the sudden. It's like marrying a pretty girl, and being pissed at yourself cuz a month later you met somebody prettier, and now you don't like your wife as much. C'mon, people! develop a relationship with your gear, get to know it, get to love it, with all its virtues and defects! You'll get a lot more juice out of it that way.
Peace,
Mexico
I have been buying (and selling) keyboards for the last 16 years. My first "real" synth was a DX100 - that should give you an idea...
Synthesizers have become much more than what they used to be, and their nature is every day more similar to that of personal computers.
Now, if I take you guys' "dialogue" - that's a nice way to put it... =) - and change the terms "Fantom S" and "Fantom X" to Dell's "Inspiron 8500" and "Inspiron 8600" (laptops, for those who might not know), then it would sound quite silly to be mad at Dell for releasing the 8600 less than a year after the 8500's release. It would also make no sense to complain about the 8600 being cheaper, or about not being able to get much money for the 8500 when trying to sell it.
A synthesizer (just like computers) has never been much of an investment (and nowadays it's even less). You buy it for what it can do for you. If the value meets the price, then you've got yourself a deal. If it's cheaper a week later, then so be it - you still paid what it was worth TO YOU. And just as with computers, you can always wait for the next improved, expanded, cheaper model, but the same thing is gonna happen with that one, and the next, and the next.
Now, going back to the analogy with computers, if a computer manufacturer takes too long to release a new model, it gets eaten alive by the competition. My opinion (and remember that opinions are JUST opinions, and they can't be right or wrong) is that Roland is adopting a marketing approach very similar to the computer market. If the current trend (to make synthesizers more like computers) continues, eventually other manufacturers (read Yamaha and Korg) will follow.
If you're happy with your synth today, the fact of a newer and more capable synth coming up tomorrow shouldn't make you unhappy all of the sudden. It's like marrying a pretty girl, and being pissed at yourself cuz a month later you met somebody prettier, and now you don't like your wife as much. C'mon, people! develop a relationship with your gear, get to know it, get to love it, with all its virtues and defects! You'll get a lot more juice out of it that way.
Peace,
Mexico
Re: Fantom X ROM on Fantom S RAM
Per Mexico,
"C'mon, people! develop a relationship with your gear, get to know it, get to love it, with all its virtues and defects! You'll get a lot more juice out of it that way."
---------------------------------
I agree... Amen and all that.
A similar thing happened at Tascam. I'm sure this will happen at Yamaha and Korg someday too. Buy what you need and want... and love it for its' life.
git
-- "Was that the perfect take?" --
"C'mon, people! develop a relationship with your gear, get to know it, get to love it, with all its virtues and defects! You'll get a lot more juice out of it that way."
---------------------------------
I agree... Amen and all that.
A similar thing happened at Tascam. I'm sure this will happen at Yamaha and Korg someday too. Buy what you need and want... and love it for its' life.
git
-- "Was that the perfect take?" --
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toom driver
- Posts: 131
- Joined: 23:41, 25 July 2003
- Location: UK
Re: Fantom X ROM on Fantom S RAM
Mexico - we share one thing in common - my first real synth was also a DX100 - and I still have it!
Gitguy - I do have a relationship with my FS and I enjoy playing it. I chose carefully when I purchased it - and didn't go for the Yamaha or Korg offerings because I perceived the FS to be better suited to my needs. Of course I expected it to lose value over time. My big issue is that I didn't expect a new keyboard to become obsolete 6 months after I purchased what was a 'new' workstation. Roland must have had the FX on the drawing boards when they released the FS. It is for this reason that I would not consider a new Roland product again - they were not IMHO looking after the best interests of their customers. Someone defined quality as not just fitness for purpose but meeting your customers explicit and implied expectations. ROland doesn't understand Quality - look at the fiasco with the missing conversion vapourware.
Toom!
Gitguy - I do have a relationship with my FS and I enjoy playing it. I chose carefully when I purchased it - and didn't go for the Yamaha or Korg offerings because I perceived the FS to be better suited to my needs. Of course I expected it to lose value over time. My big issue is that I didn't expect a new keyboard to become obsolete 6 months after I purchased what was a 'new' workstation. Roland must have had the FX on the drawing boards when they released the FS. It is for this reason that I would not consider a new Roland product again - they were not IMHO looking after the best interests of their customers. Someone defined quality as not just fitness for purpose but meeting your customers explicit and implied expectations. ROland doesn't understand Quality - look at the fiasco with the missing conversion vapourware.
Toom!
Re: Fantom X ROM on Fantom S RAM
Points taken.
But, all companies screw up. Find a company, lets say... their (ficticious) name is "SoundScape" and they have the most awesome DAW/workstation. It's so great they sell a record number of them and people can't get enough. I believe, even "SoundScape" will eventually screw up and a lot of people would "jump ship". So where do the people who "jumped ship" go? There isn't that many choices in choosing music gear... compared to say bicycles. Then take computer processors... Intel, AMD, Motorola... if you want a PC you have to choose one.
When it comes time to buy a piece of gear, I first look at what it can do for me and how it can fulfull my needs. How the (equipment) company screwed up, isn't paramount in my decision process... at least not yet. Tascam kind of pissed off a lot of 788 owners, me being one of them. But I'd consider Tascam products again... if it's the best for the money at what I need.
I won't say any more. I just wanted to say I'm NOT defending Roland in their Fantom S marketing but it won't stop me from considering them in the future.
P.S. I have a Fantom S and love it. I got it as a pristine return (No scratches - all manuals and CD's were perfect and still in the bags) at GC for a 1/3 off. I'm also mainly a guitarist and I'm probably not educated enough in how to critically choose the "right" keyboard.
git
-- "Was that the perfect take?" --
But, all companies screw up. Find a company, lets say... their (ficticious) name is "SoundScape" and they have the most awesome DAW/workstation. It's so great they sell a record number of them and people can't get enough. I believe, even "SoundScape" will eventually screw up and a lot of people would "jump ship". So where do the people who "jumped ship" go? There isn't that many choices in choosing music gear... compared to say bicycles. Then take computer processors... Intel, AMD, Motorola... if you want a PC you have to choose one.
When it comes time to buy a piece of gear, I first look at what it can do for me and how it can fulfull my needs. How the (equipment) company screwed up, isn't paramount in my decision process... at least not yet. Tascam kind of pissed off a lot of 788 owners, me being one of them. But I'd consider Tascam products again... if it's the best for the money at what I need.
I won't say any more. I just wanted to say I'm NOT defending Roland in their Fantom S marketing but it won't stop me from considering them in the future.
P.S. I have a Fantom S and love it. I got it as a pristine return (No scratches - all manuals and CD's were perfect and still in the bags) at GC for a 1/3 off. I'm also mainly a guitarist and I'm probably not educated enough in how to critically choose the "right" keyboard.
git
-- "Was that the perfect take?" --
Re: Fantom X ROM on Fantom S RAM
That's a bit of what I was saying...............I think that the original Fantom was a high foul popup.
But I don't see how the X makes the S obsolete?
But I don't see how the X makes the S obsolete?
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sambasevam
- Posts: 1786
- Joined: 17:52, 10 May 2004
- Location: United States of America
My humble Opinion
the very first point - why do u guyz keep saying that Roland 'dropped' the FS. what does it mean???
i still see the FS in GC an on the roland website. i can see the original Fantom dropped off be roland but surely not the FS and the FS88.
BTW, i am a FS61 owner and a in the US.
Do u guyz beleive that TRINITY still exists in GC and even in KORG's website. it still has te support that it had 9 years ago.!!WOW
now roland should bring up something like that. lets hope atleast the FX holds its name like the TRINITY does.!!
u guyz are all 16 years experienced and 20 yrs keyboard and all that stuff. i am just 16 yrs old and so please take my opiion lightly. i am not discouraging anyone or supporting anyone. thnkx forbringing out this forum, art!!
Sambasevam.S
i still see the FS in GC an on the roland website. i can see the original Fantom dropped off be roland but surely not the FS and the FS88.
BTW, i am a FS61 owner and a in the US.
Do u guyz beleive that TRINITY still exists in GC and even in KORG's website. it still has te support that it had 9 years ago.!!WOW
now roland should bring up something like that. lets hope atleast the FX holds its name like the TRINITY does.!!
u guyz are all 16 years experienced and 20 yrs keyboard and all that stuff. i am just 16 yrs old and so please take my opiion lightly. i am not discouraging anyone or supporting anyone. thnkx forbringing out this forum, art!!
Sambasevam.S