First, thanks to all the members who's knowledge finally got me to the mixing stage!
Problem I'm having is that my mix sounds brilliant thru my headphones, but like crud just about everywhere else. Two things, really:
First, bass thru my home stereo rumbles the entire house. Way too deep. But listening in my car, you can bearly make out the bass line.
Secondly, I'm having a heck of a time getting vocal audio tracks to "fit" into the mix. They either are muddy and bass-heavy without EQ, or if I EQ (spectrum) out the bass, they become tinny.
Overall, I just can't see to get the same sound as some of my favorite bands (I know your smiling at that statement). Play a manufactured CD in the home, car, wherever and it sounds good. Play my tracks off CD and you never know how it will sound... the playback system has its way with it.
I'm thinking it has something to do with compression, but don't know a thing about it. I know where the compression mix screen is, but switching thru the different commpression settings seems to make no difference to my ear and thru the headphones. Any advise would be greatly appreciated!
Best 2ya
Mixing down - Sound Quality
Importance of monitoring in mix
Hi JEB. As for your mix quality, it is essentially a fact that how well your mix turns, along with a number of other factors, is related to how well you can hear the mix. In terms of "hearing", it is important to be able to hear your sound transparently and flat. All speaker systems and headphones colour the sound, sometimes quite a bit. If you are listening with headphones that under-empasize bass for example, your tendency will be to mix the bass higher which will then come out with an over-emphasis on bass. The opposite is also true (accentuated bass in monitoring will result in an under-mix of bass).
This is the reason why the best solution is to use a good pair of studio monitors which are designed for this purpose. Second best (by a long way) is to use headphones designed for flat studio monitoring. A few examples are Mackies, Tannoys, and Yorkville active monitors. I have only used headphones for mixing so far and I am almost never happy with the resulting mix. Just waiting to pay off some of my recent purchases (including my Fantom XR) so I can follow my own advice
.
There are a lot of good tutorials on the net for home recording and mixing to search for. Basically, compression is a means to limit the upper volume (avoid clipping and distortion), as well as bring up the volume in softer passages to achieve a smoother overall dynamic.
David
This is the reason why the best solution is to use a good pair of studio monitors which are designed for this purpose. Second best (by a long way) is to use headphones designed for flat studio monitoring. A few examples are Mackies, Tannoys, and Yorkville active monitors. I have only used headphones for mixing so far and I am almost never happy with the resulting mix. Just waiting to pay off some of my recent purchases (including my Fantom XR) so I can follow my own advice
.There are a lot of good tutorials on the net for home recording and mixing to search for. Basically, compression is a means to limit the upper volume (avoid clipping and distortion), as well as bring up the volume in softer passages to achieve a smoother overall dynamic.
David
JEB
Think of creating your music with headphones in the same way as taking a picture with a camera.
Use the camera view finder (headphones) to confirm coposition
(form and lighting)
Take the picture (your music is made)
Developing process (mixing/mastering)
this is where you take your composition and start to bring out all its charactor to its best using external monitors.
Then you use fixer to hold what you have got and hang it up to dry.
(save and burn to CD your final cut come back in a couple of days and have a listen after you ears have settled)
Now frame it..
Results not Excuses
MSN: fantom01@hotmail.com
Get optimised: Rev 9.1
QuinnX universal tranlator below:-
(lets not be misunderstood)
!!!!!! Emphasis not anger
!!?? Confusion or Stupidity
ABC are you getting the point
&*$% Anger (but rarely seen)
Fantom-X6 with Audio Track Expansion (OS 2.0)
Windows 2000
Intel P4 2g
512mb
Use the camera view finder (headphones) to confirm coposition
(form and lighting)
Take the picture (your music is made)
Developing process (mixing/mastering)
this is where you take your composition and start to bring out all its charactor to its best using external monitors.
Then you use fixer to hold what you have got and hang it up to dry.
(save and burn to CD your final cut come back in a couple of days and have a listen after you ears have settled)
Now frame it..
Results not Excuses
MSN: fantom01@hotmail.com
Get optimised: Rev 9.1
QuinnX universal tranlator below:-
(lets not be misunderstood)
!!!!!! Emphasis not anger
!!?? Confusion or Stupidity
ABC are you getting the point
&*$% Anger (but rarely seen)
Fantom-X6 with Audio Track Expansion (OS 2.0)
Windows 2000
Intel P4 2g
512mb
Re: Mixing down - Sound Quality
David, thanks for the reply.
I'm in the same boat with purchases. It never ends, does it?
Your post was very helpful. If I understand, I really don't have a volume issue (so compression wont help) but rather a frequency issue. Because my phones don't produce bass frequencies well enough, I'm overcompensating in my mix, leading to too much bass on my home system.
So, how does one obtain a flat sound? Is there a way to measure your sound color (not sure what you would call it) in the Fantom? Or, is it simply a case of getting to know the reproducing device you record with (be it phones or speakers) well enough to know how its going to sound on other reproducers? (Seems like a very un-scientific way of going about it.)
I'm in the same boat with purchases. It never ends, does it?
Your post was very helpful. If I understand, I really don't have a volume issue (so compression wont help) but rather a frequency issue. Because my phones don't produce bass frequencies well enough, I'm overcompensating in my mix, leading to too much bass on my home system.
So, how does one obtain a flat sound? Is there a way to measure your sound color (not sure what you would call it) in the Fantom? Or, is it simply a case of getting to know the reproducing device you record with (be it phones or speakers) well enough to know how its going to sound on other reproducers? (Seems like a very un-scientific way of going about it.)
Re: Mixing down - Sound Quality
Yep, the latter. Its really nothing at all to do with the Fantom. It has to do with knowing how you hear the sound on your existing monitors (headphones, speakers), translates into a good sounding mix on other sound systems (which are all different of course). If you know how to compensate well enough it is possible to get good mixes without any extra equipment (or so I hear .
Once you do burn a CD you can demo it on any other sound systems available and tweak the mix although it is more of a trial and error process than simply having better monitors in the first place. Of course the same principle of testing the mix applies even with good monitors.
David
. Once you do burn a CD you can demo it on any other sound systems available and tweak the mix although it is more of a trial and error process than simply having better monitors in the first place. Of course the same principle of testing the mix applies even with good monitors.
David
Re: Mixing down - Sound Quality
Gotcha, David. Think I need to start listening to music without the bass and the treb boosted to hear what that sounds like.
Quinnx, I've got to listen to some of your tunes. Sounds nice. Personnaly, writing is more like...um... throwing paint on a wall
Thanks to ya both!
Quinnx, I've got to listen to some of your tunes. Sounds nice. Personnaly, writing is more like...um... throwing paint on a wall
Thanks to ya both!
writing is more like...um... throwing paint on a wall
Hey.. dont knock it..
I do this myself sometimes and im suprised that people actualy like it!?? :-s
(i suppose theres not accounting for other peoples tastes)
Results not Excuses
MSN: fantom01@hotmail.com
Get optimised: Rev 9.1
QuinnX universal tranlator below:-
(lets not be misunderstood)
!!!!!! Emphasis not anger
!!?? Confusion or Stupidity
ABC are you getting the point
&*$% Anger (but rarely seen)
Fantom-X6 with Audio Track Expansion (OS 2.0)
Windows 2000
Intel P4 2g
512mb
I do this myself sometimes and im suprised that people actualy like it!?? :-s
(i suppose theres not accounting for other peoples tastes)
Results not Excuses
MSN: fantom01@hotmail.com
Get optimised: Rev 9.1
QuinnX universal tranlator below:-
(lets not be misunderstood)
!!!!!! Emphasis not anger
!!?? Confusion or Stupidity
ABC are you getting the point
&*$% Anger (but rarely seen)
Fantom-X6 with Audio Track Expansion (OS 2.0)
Windows 2000
Intel P4 2g
512mb
Re: Mixing down - Sound Quality
LOL! My wife and I actually did the same on three poster-sized canvases and hung them in the dining room. Either our visitors are being really nice, or they actually think their by a real artist by the comments. We call them "Paris In The Spring".
Re: Mixing down - Sound Quality
OK... one last thing
Obviously I need to EQ my patches and audio tracks to get this flat sound, but I don't believe the fantom has a mastering EQ, does it? That leaves me with using one of the three muli-FXs, and not having messed with those much, I'm guessing the spectrum. But, I'm gonna run out of spectrum EQs as there is only three FXs available for my 16 track sequencer (and 8 audio)!!?? Would you set a single FX to spectrum and run all the offending pathes thru it?
Sorry to be so obtuse on this.
Obviously I need to EQ my patches and audio tracks to get this flat sound, but I don't believe the fantom has a mastering EQ, does it? That leaves me with using one of the three muli-FXs, and not having messed with those much, I'm guessing the spectrum. But, I'm gonna run out of spectrum EQs as there is only three FXs available for my 16 track sequencer (and 8 audio)!!?? Would you set a single FX to spectrum and run all the offending pathes thru it?
Sorry to be so obtuse on this.
Obviously I need to EQ my patches
believe it or not...
No!
I only do EQ on the final mixdown, so all MFX are always available.
realisticaly you should not have to EQ patches unless your trying to create a unique sound.
In which case you should be concentrating on creating a new patch and not EQing existing ones..
Results not Excuses
MSN: fantom01@hotmail.com
Get optimised: Rev 9.1
QuinnX universal tranlator below:-
(lets not be misunderstood)
!!!!!! Emphasis not anger
!!?? Confusion or Stupidity
ABC are you getting the point
&*$% Anger (but rarely seen)
Fantom-X6 with Audio Track Expansion (OS 2.0)
Windows 2000
Intel P4 2g
512mb
No!
I only do EQ on the final mixdown, so all MFX are always available.
realisticaly you should not have to EQ patches unless your trying to create a unique sound.
In which case you should be concentrating on creating a new patch and not EQing existing ones..
Results not Excuses
MSN: fantom01@hotmail.com
Get optimised: Rev 9.1
QuinnX universal tranlator below:-
(lets not be misunderstood)
!!!!!! Emphasis not anger
!!?? Confusion or Stupidity
ABC are you getting the point
&*$% Anger (but rarely seen)
Fantom-X6 with Audio Track Expansion (OS 2.0)
Windows 2000
Intel P4 2g
512mb
There is a Mastering effect pg 217
Just happened to read this the other day. Page 217 of the x8 manual covers the mastering effect the fantom can apply to the final output of the Fantom x.
"Mastering Effect
This is a stereo compressor(limiter) that is applied to the final output of the Fantom-X. It has independent high, mid and low ranges. Independently for the high-frequency, mid-frequency, and low-frequency regions, this compresses any sounds that exceed the specified level, making the volume more consistens. When mixing down to MD, or Dat, or your own audio CD, this lets you master at an optimized level. "
Mastering effect settings apply to the entire Fantom-S and are not for individual patches or performances. The mastering effect is applied to the sound that is output from the Output A(Mix) jacks and not applied to the sound output from the Output B jacks. I am assumingthe headphone jacks would also have the mastering as well.
All this of course will still depend on your monitoring speakers,headphones or other external speakers.
Fogg
"Mastering Effect
This is a stereo compressor(limiter) that is applied to the final output of the Fantom-X. It has independent high, mid and low ranges. Independently for the high-frequency, mid-frequency, and low-frequency regions, this compresses any sounds that exceed the specified level, making the volume more consistens. When mixing down to MD, or Dat, or your own audio CD, this lets you master at an optimized level. "
Mastering effect settings apply to the entire Fantom-S and are not for individual patches or performances. The mastering effect is applied to the sound that is output from the Output A(Mix) jacks and not applied to the sound output from the Output B jacks. I am assumingthe headphone jacks would also have the mastering as well.
All this of course will still depend on your monitoring speakers,headphones or other external speakers.
Fogg
Re: Mixing down - Sound Quality
What do you use to EQ that final mix?
Re: Mixing down - Sound Quality
With your final sample loaded into user or card memory, go into audio edit and insert the sample or samples onto one or more of the audio tracks. Press the Effects button and press the Effects sw(f8). If the Mastering radio button(f6) is not lit, press it and then close that window. In this window, press the button marked Mastering(f7). This will bring up the Mastering EQ where you can select the lo, med, or high range and set the volume levels for lo,med and hi within that range as you are playing the Sample. You use the up/down/right/left control to move to each of the values on the screen and use the Value knob to modify the default values according to your desires. Once each range has been adjusted and there is no clipping during playback, you can do a RESample to record. It is possible to save one of your modified EQ settings in the Fantom if you want to use that for another Sample using the System Write button(f7).
Re: Mixing down - Sound Quality
Excellent. Thanks again everyone for the help!!!