BAD NEWS

[stevie]

It should now be easy to cross-reference my second mainboard and what DACs have been installed - will sort it out tomorrow. Thanks for the info. guys.

Steve

[joelee]

Hi Stevie, I am doing this at work, so when the boss came by I must have hit post 3 times. I couldn't work out how to delete my posts.

I hear whoosing on some patches and a type of 'phasing' 'swirling' sound on others (some of the string sounds for example)

[stevie]

That's bad luck - I've got to say that I think I'm OK - unless the DACs are causing the problems with the pianos. I'm going to double check, just in case. It sounds like the DAC problem is a rogue batch effecting only some boards within a range of serial numbers - I'm going to check my serial number with Roland UK, but as I say, I think mine is OK. It's a lottery.

Steve

[sb1]

Stevie - that is my best guess also and maybe bad luck as you say.
I too believe there is nothing wrong with my V2 mainboard (apart from one or two well documented software bugs of course!).

Simon @ Roland UK is specifically describing pops & crackles (isnt that a breakfast cereal?!!) and I just dont hear that sort of thing. I have asked for further clarification to end this speculation if possible.

Hope Simon K didnt mind going public on that statement (bit late now!) but I still feel that this is pretty damn good support.

[stevie]

Yeah, it really sums it up - if you don't hear rice crispies(!) - they aint nothing wrong. Even if the serial number of the mainboard is in the range of those affected.

Still got feedback coming on the pianos though.

Steve

[Liquid]

I've got a new pair of Mackie SRM350 monitors and am now hearing crackling etc. when holding down chords (even just notes sometimes). I can hear it on most patches, Ultimate Grand, other pianos, EP patches etc. Sounds like there's a loose wire on a speaker somewhere, that kind of sound and mainly in the bottom end.

I've eliminated the monitors being duff, although I didn't hear this with my old Peavey kbd amp. Is this what is meant by the 'noisy DAC' issue? When I spoke to Rob Edwards in Roland UK he wasn't sure what the symptoms were.

It's going in for a board replacement anyway so I'll find out the hard way!

[sb1]

Liquid - I guess it could be the symptom attributed to the noisy DAC issue but difficult to say.
Presumably the same "crackling" can be heard thru headphones?
Do you have anyway of listening to the digital output to see if the problem can be heard there?

[Liquid]

Doesn't seem to be in the headphones, but they're just basic. I've swapped speaker sides and the noise still comes mainly from the left speaker (hence the bass assumption) and also tried outputs 3 & 4. These are *much* louder (currently using unbalanced cables) but have the same problem. Also swapped to different cables and tried mono rather than stereo.

I'm *assuming* I'm hearing it now because of the clarity of the active speakers but have to do some more research before I'm certain.

[John01W]

Yeah, there's is still clipping/crackling on many patches and high level sounds. Always was there, it's a lot better than it was before on the first, many sounds still do crackle. You can't really do any bass increases beyond 6 or 7 without distorting. Holding down more than 3 or 4 notes on most of the really good organs on the SRX boards, clip the unit out very easily. Many patches on the SRX boards and some stock sounds, are unusable because they crackle. This may or may not be what they are talkin' about.


I'm so surprised Roland US was not cool with me about it(want to say the first two guys I talked to were awesome, I think they genuinely didn't know about it, I didn't get the problem # before I called, the third guy I'm sure would help me if he knew). Roland US please catch up to the rest of the world Take care of my Fantom XR please. The issue has been confirmed.

We've(early supporters) have already been through enough with this, this is my first Roland product, please don't make it a bad experience:( Come on U.S. fantom X users, help get Roland involved

Trying to look on the bright site. You think I should call Roland US again:(?


Liquid I'm jealous, Roland US would not give me that option.... Not very nice:(

[sb1]

John01W - That does not sound good.
Is there a specific patch / parameter / volume setting / note(s) that could be a test others can attempt ? Guess this could possibly be a bad DAC and if so should be sorted by warranty. Just a matter of making a comparison to other units to identify the issue.

What do you hear out of the digital output?

I have not heard anything like this from my V2 mainboard unit.
Does seem to me that the first mainboard issue (101811, "Fault When Switching Sound") affected ALL early Fantoms whereas the DAC problem (101989, "Mainboard Change Specifications") affects a small random number units seemingly both V1 & V2.

[sb1]

John01W - Looked further into what you are saying and I think I can see what you mean. I noticed with an external input (not local keyboard) that is sending high level midi velocity data certain sounds (organs) will clip. You can see this in "Mastering". This same clipping presents at digital out so cant really be attributed to the internal DAC's can it? Is this what you are seeing? Just flip to the mastering screen and see if the vu's reach clip.

[nsheldon]

This clipping issue, from what sb1 is describing (clipping before it even gets to DACs) is just poor patch design. Someone turned the "Wave Gain" parameter too high. Try either lowering the Patch Level (General tab of Patch Edit screen) or setting the "Wave Gain" parameter (Wave tab of Patch Edit screen) to 3 dB less that whatever it's set to now.

Regards,

Nathan Sheldon
http://www.nathansheldon.com/

[sb1]

Thanks Nathan for clarifying that. Agreed.

Just a final (?) update from Roland UK on this DAC problem that says that -
"The dac problem is not covered by the first main board replacement.However, it doesn't appear to be affecting every unit. The service info you mention refers specifically to "crackles, pops and general poor sound quality" so if yours isn't suffering from any of these then it'll probably be fine."

I specifically quoted service note 101989, "Mainboard Change Specifications".
So, if you dont hear "crackles, pops and general poor sound quality" then you aint got a DAC problem. According to Roland UK.

Hope that helps.

[John01W]

Ya nathan I agree, A great deal of the srx patches are like this, and these you cannot rewrite them. Poor patch design. This may not be what they are talking about sb1.

"It will probably be fine" does not inspire much confidence though:), shouldn't they fix it anyway.

I think RolandUS had no idea what I was talking about when I called them, because the issue is so new. I do have some of those problems, which was on the old mobo, but slightly better on the new one.

I don't see how it would effect some users and not others, since the specifications are the same for all of us. "If you don't notice it don't get it fixed" isn't how it's supposed to be.
You might run into problems down the road after your warranty is up and it's too late, or put yours next to another Fantom X and it doesn't sound nearly as good. Am I going to have to buy another XR in about 4 months and sell my current one, still might not ensure that I have the latest:(... I'm starting to regret buying the Fantom.

People pity us on other forums. Roland US service, is making me sad, I'm sure they will take care of any issues(please Roland). I appreciate the 1st mobo being fixed and the V2 upgrade, but now that we've firmly established that there's enough of a problem that they've changed it again... we shouldn't have to debate to get our boards fixed. They should just fix it.

Thanks for posting that info from RolandUK sb1.

[pianodick]

This just reaffirms that were Roland really providing customer service they would be contacting all registered owners of affected boards and advising them to return to their service center. Instead of customers having to contact Roland first. I say again that were it not for this forum and this forum alone there could be as many as 1753 fantom owners that were not even aware that they had an option regarding these issues. THANK YOU AGAIN ARTEMIO!

Signed, "Nature is hard enough on us, let's not be hard on each other."