Yesterday I got a chance to get my hands on a Triton Extreme and a Fantom-X. Having read all the hype, I wanted to see how they stack up against my Motif ES 6.
Firstly the Triton didn't impress me whatsoever, it's basically a suped-up classic with more sounds, but that's about it, and, I hated the action of the Extreme 88, so that's totally out of the running, unless you love korg sounds and the Triton UI.
Now, my only disappointment on the X was the piano that's been raved about, don't get me wrong, it's a great piano, better imo than the SRX2 piano, but I wasn't absolutely blown off the planet by it. However, everything else that I figured out how to use on the X totally rocks! This board is so, so easy to use, even for me, a blind user! I'm looking to get one for our church mainly for the youth band and other people who are either learning or are new to MIDI and sampling, so ease of use is my number 1 priority.
It didn't take me long to find out how to select sounds in patch mode and using the patch list was a snap. Next step was performance mode which seemed to work, at a basic level, in a very similar way to patch mode except now the patch list applies to the current part and you have a performance list.
I wanted to get the feel of the sequencer and surprised myself by whipping up a little R&b thing in no time at all, that is, once I’d found how to clear the demo song out of the sequencer.
Finally, a quick and very dirty mix with Part view allowing me to set levels and panning for my sequence, again, very easy to do.
I didn’t really get a chance to do much more than scratch the surface of this board so I didn’t dig into pad usage, the arpeggiator, effects, sampling, in-depth sequencing or patch editing. Speaking of the pads however, I didn’t find them to be very responsive in their default configuration, but I’m sure that you can adjust their sensitivity, and I couldn’t find how to adjust their level.
Sound wise, I admit, I wasn’t expecting to be wowed by the Fantom-X. I was wrong! The Fantom-x has a lot of great sounds in it. Here’s my breakdown compared to the Motif-ES:
Pianos are equal.
Electric pianos go to the Motif-Es, but only just.
Strings and pads go to the Fantom-X,
Guitars go to the Motif-ES
Synthy, dancey sounds go to the Fantom-X
Brass, woodwind and harp go to the Motif-ES
Basses go to the Fantom-X
Drums are equal
One thing I do like about the Fantom-X is that there are more sound categories than the Motif-Es and there seemed to me to be a greater variety of sounds. However, there’s no escaping the fact that the Motif-es has nearly 30% more wave ROM and it shows in its sound quality.
So, which workstation should you get? That’s easy! The one that inspires you best to make your style of music. Up until Yesterday I thought that inspiration is based mainly on sound quality, however, the Fantom-X has shown me the importance of the useability factor which causes that creativity to flow!
So, If I was buying again what would I go for? Well, it would have to be the Motif-ES because of the extra effects, arpeggios and the ability to control Sonar and Pro Tools right from it’s front panel. However, the Fantom-X is definitely better than I thought it was going to be and I for one will be picking one up in the next few weeks!
Gazza
My first impressions of the Fantom-X
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Tony Clifton
- Posts: 269
- Joined: 19:59, 26 May 2003
- Location: NYC/FLA
I just got a Motif ES6!
I have the S88 and have the SRX-02 installed.I like the dark tone of the Premier despite some of the nuances like velocity problems in certain registers.I also like the X and XR pianos especially the Dark patch on the new X.Playing the new X8 and ES8 side by side through decent monitors helped display both companies new triple strike pianos better than an ES6 or 7 or the X series in 61 or 76 keys through one monitor like most stores display for preview.
Having had the Motif rack and the S88 for awhile now I appreciate what each company does well and now with the ES6 I have those great Arps and five settings to utilize.
As you said it is subjective but owning either an ES8 or a S/X88 will give you some great tools for creating.
If I get the XR module I'll have the best of both experiences.
Then when Korg brings out a new Winter Namm 2005 Trident we will start over LOL!
Sounds on Motif with the sounds and awesome OS of the Roland S and X series gives you POWER TO SPARE!
It's all good,
Tony
Having had the Motif rack and the S88 for awhile now I appreciate what each company does well and now with the ES6 I have those great Arps and five settings to utilize.
As you said it is subjective but owning either an ES8 or a S/X88 will give you some great tools for creating.
If I get the XR module I'll have the best of both experiences.
Then when Korg brings out a new Winter Namm 2005 Trident we will start over LOL!
Sounds on Motif with the sounds and awesome OS of the Roland S and X series gives you POWER TO SPARE!
It's all good,
Tony
To Gazza?
Blind user? Completely blind? I am a completely blind musician who just bought the Fantom X Rack. I have a "first impressions" thread in here somewhere too.
I am really hoping Yamaha comes out with a Motif ES rack. Then I will sell my XR and spring for a fantom X7. I am already familiar with the Xp mode of doing things, so I figure the X7 will have a less steep learning curve as compared to trying to learn the Yamaha OS, especially if I get started learning to use the guts of the X rack.
Only a couple things surprised me about your post.
1. you think the winds are better on Roland. I'd say they are equal, but for that lovely flute on the Motif. I love that flute, and Roland's doesn't come close IMHO.
2. Drums are equal? I thoroughly dislike Fantom X acoustic drums. I think Motif drums (especially snare drums) are much more lively, unprocessed, and with more articulations.
Other than that, good assessment. Of course, your opinions are subjective, as are mine, but I'm glad to hear from another blind musician who owns a motif. Gonna just keep the old XP and Fantom rack for now, and hope Yamaha releases an Es rack. I like having a rack for situations where I cannot bring a keyboard, but I can easily midi to whatever keyboard is around and still have good quality sounds.
I am really hoping Yamaha comes out with a Motif ES rack. Then I will sell my XR and spring for a fantom X7. I am already familiar with the Xp mode of doing things, so I figure the X7 will have a less steep learning curve as compared to trying to learn the Yamaha OS, especially if I get started learning to use the guts of the X rack.
Only a couple things surprised me about your post.
1. you think the winds are better on Roland. I'd say they are equal, but for that lovely flute on the Motif. I love that flute, and Roland's doesn't come close IMHO.
2. Drums are equal? I thoroughly dislike Fantom X acoustic drums. I think Motif drums (especially snare drums) are much more lively, unprocessed, and with more articulations.
Other than that, good assessment. Of course, your opinions are subjective, as are mine, but I'm glad to hear from another blind musician who owns a motif. Gonna just keep the old XP and Fantom rack for now, and hope Yamaha releases an Es rack. I like having a rack for situations where I cannot bring a keyboard, but I can easily midi to whatever keyboard is around and still have good quality sounds.
My Bad!
You like Motif winds and brass better. Ok. that makes your assessment even better, and I liked it before. Lol
OK, that's it.
OK, that's it.
Re: My first impressions of the Fantom-X
I'm looking for Yammy ES rack at summer NAMM. My guess: 2 rack spaces, MLan built in, same display as the keyboard Motifs, and maybe PC Card storage instead of compact flash like the ES keyboard. That would be sweet.
Re: My first impressions of the Fantom-X
Rordog, maybe I didn't test enough of the kits on the X, The drums in the demos on the Roland US site seemed to be better than the ones I found in my test so that influenced me a bit. So, maybe Mo shades the acoustic drums and the hiphop type of drums are similar, it's a close call. I'm not completely blind but don't have enough site to read much of the Fantom-X screen, So I had to get help with the tabs above the F keys in both of the modes. It is a very playable board though and the sequencer is very easy to use. And, apparently, the sampler is pritty accessible.
I guess you'll have posted this up somewhere but, why didn't you go for the ES along with your XR? the ES is pritty accessible for the most part apart from picking affects, that's pritty hary! Oh and trimming samples.
One other thing on a general note, When using the X, I did miss my 16 track buttons for the sequencer. using the arrow keys is OK but not as quick and although it's possible to mute/solo from part view, I often want to do this when playing live and find this quicker to do on the Mo.
2Tim, I reckon the ES rack will have 16 inserts and MLAN and if it has a pc slot, that will put it above the XR
Gazza
I guess you'll have posted this up somewhere but, why didn't you go for the ES along with your XR? the ES is pritty accessible for the most part apart from picking affects, that's pritty hary! Oh and trimming samples.
One other thing on a general note, When using the X, I did miss my 16 track buttons for the sequencer. using the arrow keys is OK but not as quick and although it's possible to mute/solo from part view, I often want to do this when playing live and find this quicker to do on the Mo.
2Tim, I reckon the ES rack will have 16 inserts and MLAN and if it has a pc slot, that will put it above the XR
Gazza
Re: My first impressions of the Fantom-X
I didn't buy a Motif Es for a couple reasons.
1. Many people I've talked to (primary Yamaha users as well as primary Roland users) have commented unfavorably on the ease of use of the Yamaha operating system. I did not need this hastle. Plus I own a Roland XP-60 and know how to use its sequencer. Mostly I need a terrific sound set. I thought at the time that doubling up on another sequencer and another keyboard would be impractical.
2. Roland has these SRX expansion cards that are killer. The expandability potential seemed much greater on the Roland than on the Motif.
3. economy. I did not have funds to just decide "I'm gonna buy a motif Es and a Fantom XR today."
After initially buying my Fantom, I was of a mind to return it and buy a Motif rack. I posted a thread challenging members here to convince me not to do so. They were somewhat successful I must say. I determined that I would be moving backward with the Motif rack. Less sample rom, less expansion capabilities, and no sampler.
If Yamaha does not come out with an Es rack, then I must decide whether or not I will buy a Mtif ES keyboard. I really want some of those yummy Yamaha sounds.
Hey, I have an idea. Why don't you just sample every single drum in the ES, as well as that jazzy flute, and one of the pianos. Then send these samples to me and I'll load em up in my Fantom X and bang! I'm unstoppable.
I'll pay you.
1. Many people I've talked to (primary Yamaha users as well as primary Roland users) have commented unfavorably on the ease of use of the Yamaha operating system. I did not need this hastle. Plus I own a Roland XP-60 and know how to use its sequencer. Mostly I need a terrific sound set. I thought at the time that doubling up on another sequencer and another keyboard would be impractical.
2. Roland has these SRX expansion cards that are killer. The expandability potential seemed much greater on the Roland than on the Motif.
3. economy. I did not have funds to just decide "I'm gonna buy a motif Es and a Fantom XR today."
After initially buying my Fantom, I was of a mind to return it and buy a Motif rack. I posted a thread challenging members here to convince me not to do so. They were somewhat successful I must say. I determined that I would be moving backward with the Motif rack. Less sample rom, less expansion capabilities, and no sampler.
If Yamaha does not come out with an Es rack, then I must decide whether or not I will buy a Mtif ES keyboard. I really want some of those yummy Yamaha sounds.
Hey, I have an idea. Why don't you just sample every single drum in the ES, as well as that jazzy flute, and one of the pianos. Then send these samples to me and I'll load em up in my Fantom X and bang! I'm unstoppable.
I'll pay you.
Re: My first impressions of the Fantom-X
I sold my Motif-6 awhile ago since the user interface was ridiculous (and I've had many synths before). For instance it couldn't even remember the filename in Save (you had to re-enter like in Save As). Also loading from memory card took forever (a minute with a tiny sample). I assume the Fantom-X flash rom is much quicker to load.
If you don't care about the sequencer I think the Motif is fine and it has better arpeggiators. The sound quality is probably better but I think the Yamaha always sounded more digital and the Rolands more analog. So it also depends on which style you're playing.
I've looked at the Fantom-X briefly in the store and I can't say the sounds wowed me but at least they were very useful for most music styles (Yamaha has great arpeggiated sound effects but I wouldn't be able to use them in a song). The user interface was definitely great for sequencing a song.
If you don't care about the sequencer I think the Motif is fine and it has better arpeggiators. The sound quality is probably better but I think the Yamaha always sounded more digital and the Rolands more analog. So it also depends on which style you're playing.
I've looked at the Fantom-X briefly in the store and I can't say the sounds wowed me but at least they were very useful for most music styles (Yamaha has great arpeggiated sound effects but I wouldn't be able to use them in a song). The user interface was definitely great for sequencing a song.
Re: My first impressions of the Fantom-X
I also have been comparing the Fantom X to the Motif ES. I'm a gigger so I'm more concerned with bread and butter sounds. The Fantom gets my nod for brass because of the solo breathy sax...a great sound for bar work (I use a similiar sound from the Sesseion board in my XP-60 all the time) and there's nothing even close in the Motif. The new Fantom piano is smoother when you play chromatically but I'm not sure it would be any better in real world situations. I like the Motif electric guitars better. The Hammond-Leslie sounds are maybe a hair better in the Motif, but if you spring for SRX-7 then the Fantom has a huge edge. If Roland had put even half of those waves (and they're all from the old SRJV 60's-70's board) in the stock ROM (or if they had put just one SRJV slot in so I could use my 60's-70's board) I would have bought a Fantom X already.
Bill Hornibrook
Bill Hornibrook