Is it possible for Roland to say something without saying it

[Dan Krisher]

Manish said:

Having your own company makes it all the more reason to have your own forums. Have you ever visited the AXON (Terratec) forums or the Korg (karma-lab) forums?

I know that the terratec guys are amazing, I've actually sent them one of the patches on my AXON that I was having issues with, and the engineers in Europe, studied it, and implemented a fix in the next version of the firmware.

I know the Korg guys are pretty amazing with responsiveness too! Again, Im not dissing Art and the gang, because I truly believe that this forum is amazing. Im simply talking about the lack of meaningful Roland presence in these forums or any other forum thereof.


What then is the membership expecting from Roland? I am trying to establish a meaningful presence here.

However, there have to be some ground rules if you want me to participate in the forum. (Personal attacks on the company or myself cannot be tolerated. It wouldn't be tolerated on other forums and shouldn't be here. That simply lowers the standards of the forum.)

So let's have a discussion about that.. What does the membership want to see from Roland's participation on the forum?

[The Audacity Works]

superchris:

...grammer [sp] mistakes of ones [sp] debate... Im [sp] guessing you are still in high school?

Well, it's obvious that only one of us went to high school.

There's no debate. You compared Dan's explanation of how he uses the Fantom-G to defending George Bush. You were being a troll. Everyone else is at least civil.

I actually like Quinnx and jessej and Septimo, whether or not we always agree. They add a LOT to this forum. You, sir, do not.

[Flumpster]

Hi Dan,

As far as I have read on the forums no-one has attacked you personally nor would have good reason to. You have done nothing but good for the community.

"Personal attacks on the company"

This is a hard one. It depends on what you consider an attack on the company. If you class negative responses towards Roland from people voicing their own concerns and opinions then I don't believe that should be moderated.

[madAhorn]

Hi Dan.

I hope we don't scare you away...I know it could happen, but try to focus on the civil ones...

Anyway, of course it has been said before...
From Roland we would like to at least know something about the future developement of the G.
The SMF and other simple fixes would be nice to know about ASAP.

From you I think we like what we will get with your awesome contributions of Video help, etc.

I think we wish there was someone here that had knowledge of what Japan is up to that could give us some helpful insight of at least there goals for the G and its customers satisfaction.

[Quinnx.]

I have yet to see anyone make personal attacks against you..
and as far as the company is concerned..

we dont get any repsonse from this company
we ask what we want to know and all we are told is
we cant say..

how is that supose to make people happy?
Of course people will get angry gainst a company that does not respond..
What else do you expect..?
No one is going to attack you personaly..
but unill there is some constructive comunication and information flowing from roland regarding what G users are entitled to know..
you can expect there to be still fustration and anger towards roland untill such time there is an attatude change on their part..
You cannot take away that right people to express themselves in the way they do while a company like roland remains silent..

[Jimknopf]

Dan,

I can only say what I expect from Roland Japan in one concrete matter at the moment. I found it great that they published the G before it was perfect, because I like to use it since then. I was positively surprised by the fast update fixing the multisample issue and some other things.

Now we wait 4 months for a further MAJOR bugfix and some minor ones (not talking of some highly desirable enhancements, factory sound reworking, and ARX development). SMF export is *absoulutely* *essential* for the whole sequencer workflow and I did NOT complain all the time, that something that important is still missing, after already being mentioned as a basic fuction in the original manual. What I definitely expect after such a long time is a clear statement about a rough time frame. It would also be helpful to see some info about the most important things on the priority list of that update. it is absolutely not acceptable to me to keep looking for that update without any information. I don't have the slightest clue if I can expect it next week, at Namm 2009 or anytime else. But I'm no beggar begging for information. I have bought a device with a missing important feature (that can happen with complicated technology) and regard it as my natural right to be informed by Roland Japan on when they plan to fix it.

I even go as far as in this case demanding it from exactly them at Roland Japan as those with the main responsibility for the G, and from no one else! That's my expectation as customer and that of not few others, and of course I know that they can go on ignoring it completely. But I - as many other customers in the world - also have one or two "ignore options"

I appreciate your presence here and think you can be a big lasting help for technical and musical questions. I hope you stay and keep on with your good job. But it also soon became clear that it can't be your job to communicate fundamental Japanese schedules and desicions. Frankly, I don't see the danger that they could become too talkative and tell secrets around. What they did was definitely missing a few(!) important points where information and communciation is A MUST - if you want a working customer relation.

[manishkurup]

... responding to Dan, since you quoted me, and asked what the membership expected from Roland.

Im assuming here that you represent Roland adequately and completely and have been given the power of attorney to quell users fears or answer questions within the realm of reason .

1. Timely updates/fixes or at least quick responses on issues as and when they may arise. I would like to view you, Dan (Or whoever else constitutes 'meaningful representation' here at the Clan), as a liasion between myself and Roland Japan (again, within realms of reason ... and not expecting you to step over NDA borders and all that good stuff).

2. Provide some sort of a road map for the future of my investment when I buy a Fantom G. Now dont get me wrong, Im not expecting a bulleted/neatly formatted list that calls attention to every feature that you guys will stick in there. A simple "Hold your horses guys, there are good things coming (wink included)" would suffice. Not sure if that's stepping over any NDAs or anything, or even giving a hint to the competition.

Now, I dont own a Fantom G yet, was seriously considering buying it early on ... But I am appreciative of it's potential and fully understand that it can very well be the best piece of hardware/software out there.

I have heavily invested (in the past) in roland equipment, and I love my Roland stuff, and still havent gotten rid of my ancient GT-3 or GT-6, since I still love how it sounds ... even now (Yup, Im a roland Fan). My gripe with Roland has been with the way Im treated as a customer (perceived - arguable).

For example (Sorry to bring up guitar effects processors here in the Fantom G forum, but it's for a purpose ... believe me) .. When I got my GT-8, I noticed that it was similar to the GT-PRO, but Roland did not release the editor software (Which was sold only with the GT-PRO) that would let me use the GT-8 even better. Now some of you (Or even Dan) may argue that it's impossible to do this, since they're 2 totally different boxes, but no ... all one had to do was change an XML file in the editor directory, basically there's a device Id in there that identifies the GT-8 or the GT-PRO : And lo and behold ... you could use the fancy editor to edit effects on the 8 !! They have almost the same MIDI implementation - I checked and verified.

What did this incident do to my confidence about Roland? Well, it made me feel that someone out there didnt care enough, to help improve my workflow. I now own a Fantom X6, which I got recently ... After all the cool Audio Track expansion and things were added to it.

The G, and watching discussions here unravel, only confirms my suspicions about past (maybe unrelated - Since BOSS was an aquisition, was it not?) experiences with Roland.

So I choose to WAIT till the G is a 'mature' platform and provides me 10-15x the functionality my X gives me, and Im not talking about per part-effects and all that good stuff. I can work around most of that. I choose to cut corners and have my music sound a little less shiny than required !

Whew, that was a long post ... hope I have explained what I (as a member) would expect of a 'meaningful Roland presence' here at the clan.

BTW, Dan, Thanks for showing up and replying ... I must say you're a brave man for stepping into this hornet's nest of unfulfilled expectations ... and a cool guy - I watched some of your videos!!

Peace ...

Manish

[superchris]

Could you be anymore of a loser? keep fixing my gramatical errors boy. Im a music producer, not a english major. Maybe if you could argue properly you would not have to resort to fixing my spelling errors as a way to try and make yourself look better. All in all your a petty little shit who should not be a moderator. Moderators do Not throw words around like "douchebag" and other offensive words. Watch your mouth boy because you would never act like this in person. Speak, read , and write in three languanges and then open your mouth lil kid. Take your foot out of your mouth.

[The Audacity Works]

superchris:

Watch your mouth boy because you would never act like this in person.

Hell yes I would. I act cool to people who deserve it (everyone else on Fantomized), and on those rare occasions where one acts like a tool, especially to the sole representative from Roland willing to communicate with us, they'll incur as much mockery as is appropriate.

I was asked to be a moderator because I help a lot in the forum and know quite a bit about the Fantom, music technology in general, and the MI industry. Nowhere does it state that moderator responsibilities include placating trolls.

Besides, it wasn't the spelling that was funny—It was the context in which the bad spelling was found.

[superchris]

I've yet to see you help any debates on here. You respond in a condescending manner towards everyone, not just me. Apparently im a "troll" for not tolerating cop outs from a roland dude. You will always be a follower kid. Your mad because everyone backed me up and you felt like a wee lil ant. You will always be the dude in the backround, never the foreground

[Jimknopf]

superchris,

we're not really living in friend/foe relations here. The best discussions arise aside from personal quarrels, leaving us enough space for irony and laughs. What is underetimated at times is the respect everybody needs for him/herself - while giving it to others as well.

Concerning The Audacity Works, I do not always agree with him, as is probably clear, but I have to contradict your evaluation. He sometimes tends to talk like explaining the big world to little children - which does not really work, because a lot of people here have their own rich fields of experience and know well enough what they talk about.

*But*: Audacity has already put a lot of really helpful work into spec overviews, thoughts on technical issues and the like, before you entered the forum. Sometimes he even is right concerning business structures ) He is one of the rich sources of the forum, and at times I used his overviews as valuable references within a wealth of available, but not always easliy accessible information.

We just have to learn to deal with each others little peculiarities. You are probably a nice guy behind some rough tones, and you help us if we all get away from the personal struggles. If not, anyone can run into moderator trouble sooner or later, which nobody wants.

So the best thing we all can do is forget about some not so joyful kinds of exchange lately and have a start from point zero. I am convinced that Audacity is ready to respect your concerns as well, as soon as the tone changes to normal gear interest talk.

[madAhorn]

.

[madAhorn]

Matthew 23
11The greatest among you will be your servant.
12For whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.

[The Audacity Works]

superchris:

Apparently im a "troll" for not tolerating cop outs from a roland dude.

It wasn't a cop out. Dan was simply explaining how he happens to use the Fantom-G. You equated this to defending George Bush. It was, frankly, a pretty douchebag-esque thing to say—that is, unless Dan's a Bush supporter.

I'll freely admit that I probably shouldn't have mentioned "douchebag" in my earlier post, but... Yeah, sorry 'bout that.

The point is, I'd rather attempt to maintain discourse with the people who make my gear, not insult them. You know, so they feel welcome. But that's just me.

[Dan Krisher]

Thank you for the responses.

I need to read through them all when I have more free time. It's hectic here today at Roland US. A lot going on.

It's all good. I promise to listen and I promise not to get too defensive about my employer.