Roland, Why no sound update..Like the Korg???

[kenchan]

>

hey GMAN- first off, you are a fool to be making fun of the japanese community with your ignorant post. i hope you go to hell.

ok, that was just a joke. :p

im not really 'turned up against Korg' as you put it. actually i dont really care if korg dissappears from the music scene. i just felt they suck in a way they showed no innovation since the last Korg i had almost a decade ago. it was just a repeat of the same old stuff. and that outdated stuff is now basically crap and how ever many times you change the shape of crap with new patches, they still sound kinda crappy.

on the other hand, the FantomG8 has many new innovations since the last Fantom i had (original Fantom). i was away from music for 7-8yrs and in that time korg did not do much other than change shape and color of their keyboard's housing... making it look worse. i think yami pretty much did the same.

[supergod]

keysme...i have a 4 months old G70 version 2 for sale...it has been used only maybe ten hours...

or i could trade it for a synth...

[MikeRO]

Artemyi is about 90% right, but sound updates is pretty elementary.....but i just realised that the Fantom G OS is a kind of modified UNIX/LINUX. so basicaly if they would want, they can make in the OS any kind of engine they want (software), so Basicly they can make a virtual analog engine easily. i think it would be better for roland to give an Open Source version of the OS and other companies like Native Instruments, etc, to work on advanced engines. haha......would be great......and very possible...

[Artemiy]

sound updates is pretty elementary

With all due respect, if making sounds is so elementary, why don't you make your own then? Making good sounds is far from being elementary, my friend, really far. Quality material takes a lot of time to create, and not exactly cheap if you hire real professionals.

but i just realised that the Fantom G OS is a kind of modified UNIX/LINUX.

How do you know this? I haven't noticed any sign of it being a UNIX clone. Specifically, because it shows hidden UNIX files in many places (i.e. starting with a dot).

[MikeRO]

well.......the OS file is a .bin file........so......i'm 90% sure that it has UNIX at OS core, cause they wouldn't use a DOS based keyboard ) since unix is free + most of the advanced workstations like the KORG OASYS have a modified LINUX, so it's pretty logical ...but even if it's something else....it can still be modified in any way........since the Fantom seems to have a pretty strong CPU...

[MikeRO]

P.S. i didn't said it's a bad thing the unix thing.....actually it's pretty cool + i make my own sounds.......but sound updates are...inspiring:P....+ in the last week......i worked with the fantom day and night and at least i am completely satisfied the way it is.....i managed to get around the effects routing.....and understand the power of re-sampling.....and you can actually make anything with the G the way it is i even maded an drawbar organ in Live mode with changable drawbars.....atack volume.....overdrive on slider and rotary + reverb and chorus.....so if i managed to do that.....i think you can do anything with the machine

[Artemiy]

well.......the OS file is a .bin file........so......i'm 90% sure that it has UNIX at OS core

Mike, no disrespect but what you say is very naive. Any file format can have a .bin extension. The extension doesn't tell absolutely ANYTHING about the format.

Also, if Roland used Linux or FreeBSD, they must have modified it some way and therefore would have to release the modified source. They did not do this, which means it runs a custom OS (and it does because the sound engine inherits many things from the Fantom-X series). Roland did use Linux on several Edirol products and they published the source code on their site.

[MikeRO]

but......at the basic core lever it's either DOS either UNIX......even if they made it from scratch .....it;s a unix type system.....you know what i mean.....it;s not necesarely cloned ir taken or copied...

[MikeRO]

aand....whatever the system is, doesn't matter anyway. it;s easy to figure out that if the CPU is strong enough to show that graphics and screensavers....it's strong enough to generate some basic waveforms, so it can easily be an Virtual Analog Synth too, but it's probably all marketing...

[Artemiy]

Yes, of course you know more about the Fantom-G than the Roland engineers

The central processor is a separate device from the one that is responsible for the graphics. It would be very stupid of anyone to let the same processor handle both the sound engine and the graphics.

The Fantom-G's internal CPU is made and optimized especially for it's synth engine, for providing 128 fixed and guaranteed voices of polyphony. And it's running at pretty much 100% of it's capabilities.

[MikeRO]

ok, i understand anyway, i want to ask you something else Artemyi if u can help me....i have an obsession with my G's joystick....when i thrust it up for modulation and i look at the value, when i push it to half.....the value goes to 127.....and from half to completely pushed up it remains there.....i created a thread and Canadave replied that at his fantom it;s the same......can you please look and tell me if it's normal?

[lekanut]

kenchan...you are speaking like this because you don't know the M3....just look at the parameter guide(800 pages)and then you will understand why the M3 is unique.

I'm a sound designer with an all equipped macpro workstation(with all the best daw and diverse soundbanks you can find from apple logic to reason and live..and natives instruments,eastwest,best service,motu..etc etc)so no hardware workstation can give me this power..

But i find in the M3 the best workstation fo sound design capacities(with the karma,the korg combi mode...etc)and i made somme pieces for multimedia only with the korg..
I'm sure i can't do that with the fantom g...

But now no workstation sucks!
I love roland workstations,but i will soon buy a used X with 4 instead of the G,because of the better sound design possibilities...

That's the problem..arx expansions are made with some limitations:you have to make a choice because you have only 2 slots in the G...and so have to think hours when roland will make new arx for what to choose..
and if you want more you must buy another G...

Roland made the G with some compromises..because they put a new workstation who make you regret your last X in so many points..

And i think proffesional users are not regarding at first a big screen...but the all the real power you can have(synthesis,sequencing,live possibilities..look at kurzweil,they don't have a big screen and a good modern ergonomy but proffesionals are using it a lot..)

So newbies are blown away by the screen but proffesionals not!

When the M3 was disponible,i was one of the first to believe in it...but it was not so easy because the sound palette was limited(512 presets...)even if the possibilities were great..
1 year after,they made 512 new presets..and we are all agree here it was not a present but necessary!

I was quite happy as an M3 user...but the big surprise was after:

When they release the Version 2,i thought at the beginning i had to pay..but what a surprise...all was free and now the M3 has 660mo with incredible orchestral sounds(how many people here really listened all these new sounds before saying bad things about the korg..?)

All i thought was:
"it's the first time a workstation manufacturer make a evolution like that for free.."(do you remember you have to pay roland for the fantom x V2?)
So,i think korg is a very good company for users and support...and roland not like that...


And i really don't understand why roland don't make a new blowing os and some free soundbanks...because the G is a wonderful workstation...
So i understand the frustration G users can have...

But stop saying the workstation you don't have sucks because you have the other...it's stupid...

Again,no workstation sucks now...the problem is you prefer one thing or another..(for exemple,the G is better than my korg for ilve giggin..)and we don't have the same needs and personality..

But what 's true is the fact than roland miss something with expansion and support...korg not(incredible free evolutions),and yamaha not too(look at all the soundbanks in the motifator site...free or not..).

And the problem is:
now,we don't want to change our worksation every 3 years...it' s a good thing for a user to keep the same synth more than that...

[G-Man]

kenchan: "hey GMAN- first off, you are a fool to be making fun of the japanese community with your ignorant post. i hope you go to hell"
I was missunderstood:(( when I said that pehaps they had some DOES I was talking about wiki, not about the japanese:) or the japanese... or... hey.. wait a sec... why is this wine bottle here empty in front of me....

sRa: "... I think it's too much to bare. or is that.. bear?" you know what... I think it's... beer:)) looks like I found my DOES mate )

[kenchan]

GMan- don't worry I was only kidding.

Or was I? hahaha!



Lekanut- It doesn't matter how great the Korg is internally. Like a smart person who can't explain themselves during a discussion, it is useless if it can not be expressed at the time I needed to hear it..while I was auditioning synths.

They had a fair chance to win my business again. Actually Roland had an unfair chance since I was more of a Korg nut to begin with.

[keysme]

keysme...i have a 4 months old G70 version 2 for sale...it has been used only maybe ten hours...

Thanks for the offer but having personally played a current G70 version 2, I feel it left something to be desired in my opinion. It was too heavy, no USB 2.0, the styles were only so-so in some categories, and a few other anomalies that made it undesirable for me. But I am hoping the G70 "successor" will be all that the original G70 was meant to be but wasn't. No offense supergod. That is, I am hoping the new one will be better in every way - including being lighter too. If Roland could make the Fantom X at 32 lbs and/or the Fantom G at 36 lbs, is it too hard to make a 76 key G70 successor under - split the difference - 34 lbs??, or thereabouts? Oops! Whining again... Sorry.

PS: The thing I REALLY LIKE about the current G70 is the VK Organ modeling! Maybe Roland will surprise us with a VK-Organ modeled ARX card at NAMM?!?! With gobs and gobs of B3 and other modeled Organ sample patches included on it too of course. Please Roland??

Enough of this frivolity! Off to church.. Have a nice day everyone.