DAN Great update...but.....
Hi Dan, thanks for all the hard work, YouTube Vids (very helpful!) and most of all thanks for participating so openly and frequently in this forum. Yes these updates are a great and welcome improvement, I was hoping one very glaring omission would be included though and that is the ability to SOLO midi or audio tracks!
But even more important for those who like to dump their G songs into DAW like protools etc, we REALLY need the ability to SOLO individual drum sounds in a drum patch/kit. So if you want to dump say to ProTools and have EACH drum sound on a different track, (which of course is the only way to record professionally) Currently you have to turn down the volume on EACH AND EVERY drum key you don't to record, so if I want to record only the KICK drum from a patch first, I have to manually the volume down in that patch for every other drum, then go back and do the same thing again for the snare drum, turning the volume up for the snare and down for everythign else.
Of course this is ridiculously time consuming when a SOLO switch for each sound in a rhythm patch would be a HUGE help here.
Dan, Your thoughts?
Thanks
Darryl Duncan
www.darrylduncan.com
www.gamebeatstudios.com
Cool update, BUT STILL NO Solo function???!...
Re: Cool update, BUT STILL NO Solo function???!...
Very weird request, I must admit. Each Fantom-G kit contains 128 sounds. Can you imagine a user interface that allows you to solo a drum sound out of 128? Perhaps something like a "hold shift and press a key to solo" could work, but still... Just record each individual drum sound on it's own track, there are more than enough tracks available for this.
Re: Cool update, BUT STILL NO Solo function???!...
I dont think the problem is how many tracks we have its the ability to solo drum parts.
Now on the X i would have suggested to use COPY to copy any drum part from where it is to another pattern/phrase and now you could play that phrase/pattern (drum solo)
however since we do NOT have this ability to copy between patterns/phrases on the G I cannot make that suggestion..
Even with the new sequencer editing function we still cannot do basic Song copy from any measure like on the X because we are restricted to ranges that contain whole phrases.
(we still have along way to go to bring the G up to the X factor)
Now on the X i would have suggested to use COPY to copy any drum part from where it is to another pattern/phrase and now you could play that phrase/pattern (drum solo)
however since we do NOT have this ability to copy between patterns/phrases on the G I cannot make that suggestion..
Even with the new sequencer editing function we still cannot do basic Song copy from any measure like on the X because we are restricted to ranges that contain whole phrases.
(we still have along way to go to bring the G up to the X factor)
Weird?.....not at all!
I don't see what is so weird about this request at all! What is weird and a creative nusance in my opinion is using a SEPERATE midi track for each drum sound!
Ideally, like in most sequencers, one should be able to record a full midi drum performance onto a SINGLE midi track and then to isolate the individual drum sounds for audio recording, just be able to have each drum sound SOLO in the drum patch. OR, a way (like in some computer sequencers) have the ability to midi mute individual midi notes or note ranges.
As far as using the shift ket to accomplish this, it makes me no difference how it is done, just as long as it is possible. but it seems like a very simple and common request to be able to hear (solo) a single drum sound in a drum patch just for the purpose of tracking those drums onto individual audio tracks in an external DAW like ProTools.
I guess that its a matter of each person's work flow and how many "workarounds" or "hoops" one is willing to jump through to achive a goal. In my opinion, this seems like a veyr very reasonable request and again is possible in other systems and synths.
I see nothing weird about such a request, but then again for a system that doesn't even have solo on their main midi tracks OR audio tracks, how can anyone expect them to have implemented solo anywhere else in the system. In fact, there is nothing that does SOLO in the Fantom-G. And what system has MUTE functions without SOLO functions!? Now THAT is Werid!
Nevertheless I will remain optimistic that DAN is listneing and his superiors are too, and that this will appear in the next upgrade!
Thanks.
Darryl Duncan
www.darrylduncan.com
www.gamebeatstudios.com
Ideally, like in most sequencers, one should be able to record a full midi drum performance onto a SINGLE midi track and then to isolate the individual drum sounds for audio recording, just be able to have each drum sound SOLO in the drum patch. OR, a way (like in some computer sequencers) have the ability to midi mute individual midi notes or note ranges.
As far as using the shift ket to accomplish this, it makes me no difference how it is done, just as long as it is possible. but it seems like a very simple and common request to be able to hear (solo) a single drum sound in a drum patch just for the purpose of tracking those drums onto individual audio tracks in an external DAW like ProTools.
I guess that its a matter of each person's work flow and how many "workarounds" or "hoops" one is willing to jump through to achive a goal. In my opinion, this seems like a veyr very reasonable request and again is possible in other systems and synths.
I see nothing weird about such a request, but then again for a system that doesn't even have solo on their main midi tracks OR audio tracks, how can anyone expect them to have implemented solo anywhere else in the system. In fact, there is nothing that does SOLO in the Fantom-G. And what system has MUTE functions without SOLO functions!? Now THAT is Werid!
Nevertheless I will remain optimistic that DAN is listneing and his superiors are too, and that this will appear in the next upgrade!
Thanks.
Darryl Duncan
www.darrylduncan.com
www.gamebeatstudios.com
Re: Cool update, BUT STILL NO Solo function???!...
GameBeat, sorry I used that word, it's that I am really used to putting sounds on separate tracks as needed.
What you say does make sense, I am just not sure how it could be implemented in a way that it would be really usable and not confuse people. I.e. say the solo switch is in the rhythm kit editor, what if someone activates it and then forgets? He'll be mad in search for the reason his whole kit was muted.
What you say does make sense, I am just not sure how it could be implemented in a way that it would be really usable and not confuse people. I.e. say the solo switch is in the rhythm kit editor, what if someone activates it and then forgets? He'll be mad in search for the reason his whole kit was muted.
Re: Cool update, BUT STILL NO Solo function???!...
Yeah I hear ya Artemiy about someone accidentally activating such a switch and then forgetting so and getting really frustrated, but then again there are literally dozens of instances in the Fantom-G's complex structure where one could encounter similar frustrations if they forget or don't know how something works.
That is why an instrument like the FG is for some and not for others. I consider the FG a pro instrument, not for hobbiest, Roland has arranger keyboards for them. So my point being, lets not omit such an useful or important feature because some noob might not know how to use it.
Thanks for the feedback.
So Roland in OS1.21 how about SOLO in Midi Tracks, Audio Tracks and Rhythm Kits!
-Darryl
www.darrylduncan.com
www.gamebeatstudios.com
That is why an instrument like the FG is for some and not for others. I consider the FG a pro instrument, not for hobbiest, Roland has arranger keyboards for them. So my point being, lets not omit such an useful or important feature because some noob might not know how to use it.
Thanks for the feedback.
So Roland in OS1.21 how about SOLO in Midi Tracks, Audio Tracks and Rhythm Kits!
-Darryl
www.darrylduncan.com
www.gamebeatstudios.com
-
b-righteous
- Posts: 63
- Joined: 02:25, 18 January 2008
Re: Cool update, BUT STILL NO Solo function???!...
First, there should at least be normal solo for midi and audio tracks that can be recorded as mute automation.
The drum key solo for rhythm patches can be solved in a couple different ways.
The MV 8800 has a function called split notes that divides the currently selected track by pitch. It creates a new track for each key that has midi info and assigns each track to the same drum kit. If there was a midi solo you could use this feature after sequencing your rhythm part to solo those new tracks. The G could do this with a song edit function that just inserts the new phrases under the track and increment the other phrases to lower track numbers.
On the MPC 5000 it has a new feature called pad mute. This will mute all midi info to this pad and is active only on the currently selected part. It even has mute groups and pad mute groups with solo.
Another thing that would have helped is if the G had a multi output option like 16 adat outs. The Motif XS and M3 have 16 firewire outs like traditional samplers. This was an odd omission but it seems too late for that since it would require new hardware.
The drum key solo for rhythm patches can be solved in a couple different ways.
The MV 8800 has a function called split notes that divides the currently selected track by pitch. It creates a new track for each key that has midi info and assigns each track to the same drum kit. If there was a midi solo you could use this feature after sequencing your rhythm part to solo those new tracks. The G could do this with a song edit function that just inserts the new phrases under the track and increment the other phrases to lower track numbers.
On the MPC 5000 it has a new feature called pad mute. This will mute all midi info to this pad and is active only on the currently selected part. It even has mute groups and pad mute groups with solo.
Another thing that would have helped is if the G had a multi output option like 16 adat outs. The Motif XS and M3 have 16 firewire outs like traditional samplers. This was an odd omission but it seems too late for that since it would require new hardware.
Re: Cool update, BUT STILL NO Solo function???!...
What about recording all drums on the same midi track, but record each drums on its own midi channel? Each drum then appear on its own part in the mixer. I do that all the time to get one PFX for each drum. Then you can mute the drums (parts) you don't want to hear from the mix.
Re: Cool update, BUT STILL NO Solo function???!...
andersn,
the only way you get results with your method is when you record all the elements apart (step by step).
I would immediately use your method too if we were able to create a groove (just as a drummer does) in one take with all your bassdrums and snares an hihats etc. and then copy this phrase to 4 different midi tracks with different midi channels. Than your method is fantastic. But I can't get a phrase copied from one midi track to another.
Or am I missing something here?
the only way you get results with your method is when you record all the elements apart (step by step).
I would immediately use your method too if we were able to create a groove (just as a drummer does) in one take with all your bassdrums and snares an hihats etc. and then copy this phrase to 4 different midi tracks with different midi channels. Than your method is fantastic. But I can't get a phrase copied from one midi track to another.
Or am I missing something here?
Re: Cool update, BUT STILL NO Solo function???!...
Totally with Gamebeat here... i could understand a 'workaround' but there is no solo function of any kind anywhere... 1.20 should at least have some kind of Solo button... or 1.10 for that matter
Re: Cool update, BUT STILL NO Solo function???!...
Hi guys.
As far as the Fantom-G goes I understand both sides, but I’m a take matters into my own hands type of guy. Their are a few ways to do what you want now and all it will cost you is a bit of time and effort. Learn how to do it once and you will have the knowledge whenever you need it and it can be used for almost any workstation.
Almost every major DAW can make software controllers.
All you need is just a little understanding about system exclusive messages and controller design. Your DAW’s instruction manual should have all the info you need. And the Fantom-G will give you the system exclusive messages, so it does the hard part for you. It only takes two Sysx to do what you want, one for on and another for off.
It really is a piece of cake.
GameBeat said,
I agree, and as Pros we should also do our best to learn as much as we can about the field. Sysx gets completely overlooked by many studio Pros, workstations use Sysx to do just about everything, if you learn how to use them you will have very few complaints.
Below is a snapshot of the controller I made for my old XP-80.
This was the first controller I made, it can adjust every single parameter on the XP. It also makes it do things it was not designed to do such as solo drums, mute drums and edit a range of drum keys all at once and much more. It took just a bit of practice and reading and I could make my old XP do just about anything. At first I made it just to solo drum keys but after I got into it I went crazy. A controller to solo keys can be made in a couple of minutes but I basically remade my entire XP-80 which took me a few years. I really enjoyed doing it and I learned a ton about Workstations.
When the drums are played back a red light flashes (in sync with the key) above the button that will solo that key. You can also use the onscreen keyboard to preview the drums, this also activates the lights.
This is a shot of the controllers drum mixer.
A workaround for the Fantom-G would be to save the Sysx message tone off (for all drum keys) to a single Rps pad. Then just go to the rhythm edit and turn on the keys you want. Save the song and just load the pattern when you want to use mute all drum keys.
If Roland does want to add solo, I would recommend they simply add a solo switch, when the switch is clicked you just push the key you want to solo. At that point the G would ask for confirmation (Solo key?). I think it should ask for confirmation because sometimes we don’t know which key the sound is on. And the G should not save the solo, we will just use it to record to Daws one or so times so no point in saving it.
But guys, you will be much better off in the end if you learn about Sysx and do this yourself.
Also, this is more of a wish list thing being it was not on any of the pervious workstations.
Let’s update our minds.
As far as the Fantom-G goes I understand both sides, but I’m a take matters into my own hands type of guy. Their are a few ways to do what you want now and all it will cost you is a bit of time and effort. Learn how to do it once and you will have the knowledge whenever you need it and it can be used for almost any workstation.
Almost every major DAW can make software controllers.
All you need is just a little understanding about system exclusive messages and controller design. Your DAW’s instruction manual should have all the info you need. And the Fantom-G will give you the system exclusive messages, so it does the hard part for you. It only takes two Sysx to do what you want, one for on and another for off.
It really is a piece of cake.
GameBeat said,
I consider the FG a pro instrument, not for hobbyist
I agree, and as Pros we should also do our best to learn as much as we can about the field. Sysx gets completely overlooked by many studio Pros, workstations use Sysx to do just about everything, if you learn how to use them you will have very few complaints.
Below is a snapshot of the controller I made for my old XP-80.
This was the first controller I made, it can adjust every single parameter on the XP. It also makes it do things it was not designed to do such as solo drums, mute drums and edit a range of drum keys all at once and much more. It took just a bit of practice and reading and I could make my old XP do just about anything. At first I made it just to solo drum keys but after I got into it I went crazy. A controller to solo keys can be made in a couple of minutes but I basically remade my entire XP-80 which took me a few years. I really enjoyed doing it and I learned a ton about Workstations.
When the drums are played back a red light flashes (in sync with the key) above the button that will solo that key. You can also use the onscreen keyboard to preview the drums, this also activates the lights.
This is a shot of the controllers drum mixer.
A workaround for the Fantom-G would be to save the Sysx message tone off (for all drum keys) to a single Rps pad. Then just go to the rhythm edit and turn on the keys you want. Save the song and just load the pattern when you want to use mute all drum keys.
If Roland does want to add solo, I would recommend they simply add a solo switch, when the switch is clicked you just push the key you want to solo. At that point the G would ask for confirmation (Solo key?). I think it should ask for confirmation because sometimes we don’t know which key the sound is on. And the G should not save the solo, we will just use it to record to Daws one or so times so no point in saving it.
But guys, you will be much better off in the end if you learn about Sysx and do this yourself.
Also, this is more of a wish list thing being it was not on any of the pervious workstations.
Let’s update our minds.
Re: Cool update, BUT STILL NO Solo function???!...
GameBeat....
I think Fantom-G's Drums programming and mixing is one of the most flexible....
You said.. " In my opinion, this seems like a veyr very reasonable request and again is possible in other systems and synths. "
Can you tell me on which other hardware workstation is this possible? The other major workstations will not let you edit a drum kit at all from song mode, forget about individual solo/mute sounds.
If you are looking into soloing drum sounds for tracking in external audio recorder... it's easy.....
Just go into Effects routing page...
Hit the keyboard note the sound you want to solo
Set the output of that sound to one of the aux outputs.
Then record the audio from that aux output.
Once recorded, switch back the routing to PFX for that drum sound....
Then just record all drum sounds one by one like that..
This isn't much different that if you had individual solo buttons....
The important point is that the 'ability' to edit individual drums sounds from the song is there.... Other workstations will not let you do this at all.........
Zephyr.... very nice controller... is it a stand alone or Cakewalk plugin? I think you get this kind of control in performance/song mode only in Roland workstations.
I think Fantom-G's Drums programming and mixing is one of the most flexible....
You said.. " In my opinion, this seems like a veyr very reasonable request and again is possible in other systems and synths. "
Can you tell me on which other hardware workstation is this possible? The other major workstations will not let you edit a drum kit at all from song mode, forget about individual solo/mute sounds.
If you are looking into soloing drum sounds for tracking in external audio recorder... it's easy.....
Just go into Effects routing page...
Hit the keyboard note the sound you want to solo
Set the output of that sound to one of the aux outputs.
Then record the audio from that aux output.
Once recorded, switch back the routing to PFX for that drum sound....
Then just record all drum sounds one by one like that..
This isn't much different that if you had individual solo buttons....
The important point is that the 'ability' to edit individual drums sounds from the song is there.... Other workstations will not let you do this at all.........
Zephyr.... very nice controller... is it a stand alone or Cakewalk plugin? I think you get this kind of control in performance/song mode only in Roland workstations.
Re: Cool update, BUT STILL NO Solo function???!...
all of these are good workarounds but is a SOLO button too much to ask for??? wouldn't pressing one button be easier than sysex or fx routing changes??? this is a standard function (not feature) on every kind of mixer i've ever seen... can someone at least tell me the thinking on why its not there after 2 updates???
Zephyer, I envy you, but...
Hi Zephyer, I am sincere when I say I envy you not only for your knowledge of that complex SysEx stuff , but also for your obvious ability to stay creative and still master the technical side of things.
I for one cannot do this and to be honest I don't even want to try. I am the type of musican/producer that is "always" creating music in my head 24/7 and I need to keep my path from original idea to final mix as straight and short as possible, and toying around with these types of things just don't appeal to me. Today's SoftSynths are challenging enough in many ways. I have been doing this for a living for the last 20+ years and avoiding that SysEx path has worked for me. I do know of SysEx's capabilities and respect its power.
I would LOVE to have my Fantom-G do this, but I am the type who would rather PAY someone like you to do it for me so I can stay creative. While I know SysEx is not actual "programming" it is still not for the faint of heart and more for those techie type such as yourself. Again, it is impressive that you know how to do this, but it would be a major detour off my road of music creation to learn, and perfect this on my own.
So with all that said! Do you plan to do this for the Fantom-G and make such a tool available to the list, or at least post a detailed tutorial on how to accomplish this. I'd even pay for this as I really want the ability to SOLO individual drum sounds in a Rhythm Patch
Thanks
Darryl Duncan
www.darrylduncan.com
www.gamebeatstudios.com
I for one cannot do this and to be honest I don't even want to try. I am the type of musican/producer that is "always" creating music in my head 24/7 and I need to keep my path from original idea to final mix as straight and short as possible, and toying around with these types of things just don't appeal to me. Today's SoftSynths are challenging enough in many ways. I have been doing this for a living for the last 20+ years and avoiding that SysEx path has worked for me. I do know of SysEx's capabilities and respect its power.
I would LOVE to have my Fantom-G do this, but I am the type who would rather PAY someone like you to do it for me so I can stay creative. While I know SysEx is not actual "programming" it is still not for the faint of heart and more for those techie type such as yourself. Again, it is impressive that you know how to do this, but it would be a major detour off my road of music creation to learn, and perfect this on my own.
So with all that said! Do you plan to do this for the Fantom-G and make such a tool available to the list, or at least post a detailed tutorial on how to accomplish this. I'd even pay for this as I really want the ability to SOLO individual drum sounds in a Rhythm Patch
Thanks
Darryl Duncan
www.darrylduncan.com
www.gamebeatstudios.com
Re: Cool update, BUT STILL NO Solo function???!...
yes, i agree there should be easy mute/solo per track buttons...
And i will be superb to have mute/solo for each drum sound in a patch..
GameBeat.. the way you are asking for solo for each drum sounds is actually more technical... most of the producers lay down each drums instruments on separate tracks, which gives easy access to a lot of features.. solo/mute, pan, level, filters, routing, effects processing..... etc.. one benefit you get this way is that you can easily try different sounds for each note by transposng the notes to trigger different tones....
Now Fantom is the only workstation that will let you do all of this from a single patch... so if you use the mutes/solo within one patch... you can't later have the setup on another workstation.... on the other hand if you record individual instruments on separate tracks you can have these features with any workstation....
Zyapher....... I keep looking at that controller and imagine how this will look on Fantom-Gs screen........ not bad at all......
Wow!!! if Fantom-G came with a controller UI designer so we could make our own controller pages! drooooooollll
And i will be superb to have mute/solo for each drum sound in a patch..
GameBeat.. the way you are asking for solo for each drum sounds is actually more technical... most of the producers lay down each drums instruments on separate tracks, which gives easy access to a lot of features.. solo/mute, pan, level, filters, routing, effects processing..... etc.. one benefit you get this way is that you can easily try different sounds for each note by transposng the notes to trigger different tones....
Now Fantom is the only workstation that will let you do all of this from a single patch... so if you use the mutes/solo within one patch... you can't later have the setup on another workstation.... on the other hand if you record individual instruments on separate tracks you can have these features with any workstation....
Zyapher....... I keep looking at that controller and imagine how this will look on Fantom-Gs screen........ not bad at all......
Wow!!! if Fantom-G came with a controller UI designer so we could make our own controller pages! drooooooollll