Fantom G bashing

[Atlas5]

I've started a new service;

If the Fantom G is not living up to your expectations and/or your tired of waiting on Roland to upgrade, now is time to really do something about it.

For a small fee of $19.95 you can ship your Fantom G to me for proper disposal or recycle. (I will send an email to Roland stating your non-satisfaction, and I'll post the serial number for all to see so Roland will get the message.)

Sorry to be such a poppy dude....but the more time I spend with the Fantom G, the more I like the thing. Great sounds and performance capabilities. Easy to learn, (the M3 has over a 1000 pages of instructions, with colored pictures, there is something complex about that many pages.)

Just today I learn to utilize the "External Part Group" in Live mode. What a cool feature. It's brought new life to my Virtus TI Snow. I find I can use it as an expansion to the Fantom G while still using the internal sounds of the Fantom G. Prior to this I had the Snow MIDI'ed to my V-synth and I'd just turn down the volume of the unit I did not want to hear. I still wish the Fantom G had multiple MIDI I/O ports, and I could drill the holes myself, then I let the Fantom G rule all my other keyboards.

I also expanded the sample memory today. That's 512 Mb of memory I'll never fill, If the FG only had as much as the XS's 1Gb that I have yet to use 1 Kb's worth. The sampling and assembly of Beats is another area I have yet to venture down.

PS : for a limited time I will wave the $19.95 processing fee for Clan members only, assuming they own a Fantom G only. That's right, you M3'ers or XS'ers have to pay the full amount, you should have never invested in the other guys, half of the frustration seem to be coming from comparisons with the other power work stations.

I find the OS upgrading features to be a sign of the OS's maturity.

FG, copy file to stick insert for auto update.
XS, copy file to stick, insert, hit magic (secret) set of keys to update.
M3, copy file to stick, insert, select update from a menu to update.
Snow, Run program on Laptop to update system.

So far only the M3 & Snow OS upgrades are required to be ran more than once to complete the upgrade.

Every forum out there has threads about bad memory sticks used on all the major work stations. I personally have not had a problem with sticks I buy from my local office supply house on any of the keyboards. Although there has been confusion on my part between USB Sticks and internal Flash memory.....I think I got it worked out now, the problem has been my lack of understanding.

I gave my Fantom X to my friends, but unlike the Fantom G, I never used it for much more than a piano sound, so I don't miss it.

And another thing...all this whinning about OS upgrading...just remember Korg has updated the M3 so much, it almost does not work. You've got to keep a loaded USB stick in the thing to have all the sounds. It takes forever to boot. Everyones crying about lost patches/samples/programs. And too top it off I had collected about 300+ programs/combi's and since the upgrade they dont work correctly and require remapping of program numbers. But here again I still love the thing, best Korg I've every owned, and the Karma function is like having other musicians in the room, only they play better than me!

[jessej]

Dude, you are getting the message wrong. I guess many here are.

The Fantom G is 90% awesome, but 10% of it is not finished yet, specially the sequencer part.

So the question is:

Should we

A) Fix the 10% and demand an update
B) Shut up & bend over for corporate Japan


If you want to do 'B' fine. I'm going for 'A'.
But no-one is saying that the Fantom G is no good. Because it is good.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTxBd0XYaGc

[Atlas5]

No problems, I just posted my response because the top 10 posting always seem to be bashing the thing around. And please realize I am still infatuated with the Fantom G. I've got to be, I have not paid for yet.

[SoulLife]

The bashing that's been going on here is enough to scare people away.

[C-Sharp]

Good point, SoulLife.

I'm not saying that the guys at Roland aren't late with the update, but I think that this forum is flooded with messages about it. We get your message. We (the rest of us) are not the ones who needs to hear it. If all these messages had been converted to e-mails to Roland Japan, maybe they were a bit more meaningful. What do you expect to achieve by telling other users about it?

[Arjan]

If all these messages had been converted to e-mails to Roland Japan, maybe they were a bit more meaningful.

On the contrary. This:

The bashing that's been going on here is enough to scare people away.

is more likely to worry Roland and set them in motion then a bunch of emails from customers who already purchased and paid for their product.

Personally I would have loved to upgrade my Fantom X to a G but in just a few hours of trying it in the shop I found several show stoppers (for me). Instead of diving in and hoping for Roland to fix it I have decided to wait and see until they deliver an OS that is worthy of the hardware. If they don't, I'll just keep my X.

An updated or expanded sound palette (better choice of SRX waveforms) would also be very welcome and in some specific cases required, such as the large choir samples from SRX-06 that are missing altogether. I believe that no amount of sound programming will allow you to really get that sound (large choir) based on the available samples (small vocal ensembles); and even if it is possible, it would mean a huge waste of polyphony.

BTW I have informed Roland directly through email regarding my grieves about the G just after it came out. None of them have been fixed so far. I put them on luislobo's bugs & requests list a few days ago as well, you never know.

[V-CeeOh]

Atlas5
I understand your point. I'm also happy with my G. Honestly, I've been a little tired of the mood we have lately around here. But many of our members find the Clan as the perfect place to adress their concerns, and maybe it truly is. I don't agree with maybe 80% of the complaints but we must accept it, try to find solutions and help those members out.

I'm used to have drawbacks in every single keyboard I use. I was a bit surprised when I found that some of the functions I had on my XP-50 had just gone in the my first Fantom X7. But I thought that what I gained far surpassed what I lost. I feel exactly the same after trading my X8 for the G8. I was not expecting the G to be perfect. I bought it for what it IS. Not for what it eventually can become with OS updates. But the truth is that , at least with the "Overdue" thread, Jimknopf, myself and all others, are just asking for :
1 - A feature that is stated in the manual and should be in the OS from the very beggining - The SMF Export.
2 - Simple and obvious editing functions without wich any sequencer can't really be "considered" like that - Some simple Copy/Cut/Paste across the song.
These 2 missing functions don't really bodered me since I rarely use the G for sequencing/recording but I have to understand they are crucial for those who rely on it to make music.

In the end, I'm glad that happy users like you jump in and tell us your experiences. This certanly helps to ease the tension around here

[KrisR]

Atlas5

"I still wish the Fantom G had multiple MIDI I/O ports, and I could drill the holes myself, then I let the Fantom G rule all my other keyboards"

Clever use of MIDI Thru / soft Thru (if available on your other boards) or a MIDI Hub would grant this wish.

[Atlas5]

thanks KrisR, utilizing the thru port is a good working solution. with 128 tracks, I like to be able to send multiple midi signals (more than one midi channel) to each board, like I use to do with my computer.

But using the midi thru's and chaining the keyboards together, then a heathy dose of patch programing will work. Making sure the right patches on the right keyboards respond to the correct channel as transmitted by the FG sequencer.

This desire is not to spread the wealth around and utilize all those track with lots of different patches. My idea is to be able to utilize various keyboards for various part almost on the fly. Even without the sequencer at time. (Jam Mode)

Much like I used to with my JLCooper MSB+ rev II, this was an 8 channel midi switch/router, allow any 8 in's to be routed to any 8 out's. I talk in the past tense because my unit no longer functions as a midi router but more like a secret code generator.

[Atlas5]

I am sorry to be so critical, but the number of post when ever something is negative is overwhelming, sometime numbering in the hundreds. And luckily I did not frequent this web site prior to purchasing the FG.

I also frequent the Karma site, it seems the posts there are generally more positive, even before many of the updates. Actual, the 2.0 upgrade has cause a lot of issues for people. People still complain, but regulars try to help them out, to solve their problems (like KrisR and many others).

Roland is a different company, if memory serves the Fantom X was only upgrade three time then got to version 2 and stopped. I upgrade the M3 7 time and the XS 4 times in less than a year. SO far I've update the Fantom G once.

The real problem for me (and others) is I need an upgrade to my play ability, When is god going to do that? Guess I have to work it out myself, I've heard rumors that practicing is just like getting OS upgrade.

[jessej]

Yes, I agree the tone on this forum is very negative compared to the other forums I visit.

I wish there would be more positive and creative posts, like discussions about imaginative, innovative, experimental patch creating and such.

I'm making wonderful patches on a daily basis on the Fantom G, but hardly any of that positivity gets reflected to this forum, I wonder why?

[V-CeeOh]

...but hardly any of that positivity gets reflected to this forum, I wonder why?

Human nature?

[Atlas5]

I rush home after work to play with the Fantom G. But then again I go to work late because I am busy reading the negative post on the Fantom G.

I guess your right....Human Nature.

jessej, you should post your work, I am interested. Your approach to making new sounds along with short cuts and tips. Go ahead and show everyone how much better you are than me. Should not be too hard, I have not created any of my own patches yet.

[manishkurup]

Hey Atlas5,

I dont think anyone here (I can speak for myself, at the least) is comparing or 'bashing' the G with respect to the features with any other 'venerable' God-synth out there.

Granted, every synth has it's quirks and issues, and oh, yes, strong points ... (As I realised with the purchase of the Korg M3 a few months ago, it's far from perfect - especially in the effects/part switching department - but my perception is that Korg listens and things may be improved - and not you or anyone here can change that).

I still maintain that if you're a live player, and dont ever need to sequence complex multi-timbral pieces (quickly) as part of your repertoire ... the G is still one of the best set of keys out there ... Im intimately familiar with the X's sound-engine, and have used the 'Tweakbook' to truly realise it's potential (Even with the G out there). The G is 'more of the same'. Not sure about the 'bread-and-butter' sounds though.

However as I figured out from some of the discussions I was part of here, it still has many missing pieces to make it as 'useable' as the X. I mean, basic things like SMF export missing has me wondering how Roland sleeps at night (Please dont ask me not to be toooo serious VeeCee !!). I dont blame jessej for 'bashing' the G, because he's someone who had to fork over more money to complete his handicapped workflow. In fact, it's guys like Quinnx and jimknopf and jessej (the whiners) who ensure that the 'rest of us - you and I' get the best in consumer durables and in life (If I may go as far). Healthy discontent is good, and should be encouraged - not squashed. There would otherwise be a monopoly and we would have to live with whatever's available.

I would only fork over so much money ($2500+) on a top-of-the line synth if I felt comfortable with the attitude of the company selling it. As I have said time and again ... I would rather like it if Roland 'took the bull by it's horns' and started some damage control by at least assuring me of the fact that my investment was protected. The stand Roland takes at the moment is to 'leave us twisting in the wind' till they get the mess sorted out!

Having said all that doesnt diminish the fact that I still believe that the G ***CAN*** be the best synth out there, with the most future proof architecture and all the bells and whistles. Now if only Roland had stepped up to the plate and contained this 'infection'.

I would buy it in a heartbeat (to replace my X) if I felt that 'Roland listens', but that continues to be my wish.

Thus ends my rant for the day, back to work on my X now ...

Manish

Disclaimer:
The opinions expressed above solely represents those of the originator of this mail, and do not in any way represent those of the Roland Clan. Any reference to persons living or dead was unintended and purely coincidental.

No trees or animals were harmed in sending this mail, however, a large number of electrons were seriously inconvenienced.

[V-CeeOh]

(Please dont ask me not to be toooo serious VeeCee !!)

ARE YOU SERIOUS???

Actually, and just to correct a little mistake of yours, The Fantom G imports SMFs. It's the EXPORT function that it's missing.