MC-808 MIDI IN PROBLEMS. VERY ANNOYED.

[darknessfalls]

no one has ever replied to any of my messages here, which i find very strange. i'm hoping that trend stops now. do i have to call out the magic words "mike acosta" or something?

here's my issue: i now own the mc-808. i was always troubled by the lack of footswitch jack on the unit but discovered i could circumvent this with MIDI devices. i have a ROLAND footswitch and a tech 21 MIDImouse going into a MIDIsolutions footswitch controller, which is then going into the MC-808's MIDI IN. the MIDImouse sends a program up/down command to any MIDI device, and the footswitch controller converts a start/stop footswitch click to a MIDI command and sends it via MID OUT (as well as ECHOing any MIDI commands present at the MIDI IN).

ok, so i've got everything set up supposedly correctly and it doesn't work. the footswitch has no effect through the MIDI footswitch controller, which i believe i programmed correctly. in pattern mode, the MIDImouse changes patches within the pattern but does not change the pattern number itself. in song mode, it changes the part in the song but not the song number.

i also had a friend who is a longtime MIDI user hook up his controller keyboard, and this had the same results. i also hooked up a juno-106 to the MC-808. it played the synth in the MC-808 just fine and changed patches. so it is recieving information to the synth section.

we checked out the MIDI implementation chart, which for some reason is on the patch manual instead of the main user manual. it shows what MIDI commands are sent and accepted by the MC-808. the first strange thing is that the device has no basic channel, in fact there is no way to select what MIDI channels are sent and received whtsoever. ok fine, this is not part of a huge MIDI chain so it doesn't matter. the footswitch controller was programmed to send to ALL MIDI channels at once.

i even made sure the SYNC section was set to REMOTE, which means the sequencer should receive clock information. to quote the manual: "REMOTE:...Start/Stop messages from the external MIDI device will control playback/stop for the internal sequencer." now i realize this doesn't mention program up/down, but why would this not be information that could be received?

this is extremely irritating because a simple footswitch jack would have meant my roland footswitch would be all i'd need (although the program up/down would be nice too). but instead i had to hunt down, buy, and program a separate MIDI device to do this, and while i was at it i spent more on another MIDI device that should also work, and nothing does.

if i can't make this stop/start with a footswitch, the MC-808 is nearly useless to me as a live device. that would be a real shame as otherwise it seems to have everything i need and some nice bonuses besides.

[bio4ema]

no one has ever replied to any of my messages here, which i find very strange. i'm hoping that trend stops now. do i have to call out the magic words "mike acosta" or something?

sorry about that.
(my experiences so far with this forum are pretty good...)


i've used my 808 connected (in slave mode) to some other equipment and so far everything i wanted, including start/stop, worked fine.

from reading your post(s), the only thing i can guess is, that perhaps you have a mailfunctioning unit...

it's not like you're trying to do some sys-ex or sth, start/stop is really basics.

anyway, what's the master clock in your midi-chain?

do you use any other (midi connected) equipment?

did you try remote start/stop via midi using sth different from the footswitch ?

greetings,
b.

[darknessfalls]

b., thanks very much for your reply.

i know it's hard for me to narrow down the source start/stop problem as the MIDI footswitch is naturally suspect too. i realized since my first post that i should try to use it to start/stop some other device as a control test. i've also just asked a friend if he has another MIDI device that can send simple start/stop commands via MIDI to see if the MC-808 responds.

however, i will say this: the MIDI mouse is able to make the patches and parts change up and down, and it is running through the footswitch controller. i also get the same result when using either the juno-106 or another keyboard - the patches and parts scroll up and down, but not the patterns or songs. which, from reading the manual, would seem to indicate that MIDI is being received in the patch/sample section of the MC-808 but not the sequencer section.

to answer your questions: as i understand it, the master clock still needs to be the MC-808, because it is where the tempos will originate from. the MIDI chain is simple: MIDIMOUSE (for prog up/down) ---> MIDI footswitch controller (for start/stop) ---> MC-808 (you can see a partial diagram of this setup at http://www.midisolutions.com/diagfsw.jpg). those devices are not meant to drive the MC-808. this is why i set the SYNC to REMOTE and not SLAVE. in SLAVE mode, the BPM disappeared, which would mean it was awaiting a tempo from another device. there is no other MIDI equipment in this chain, although i have used MIDI before.

i would really hate to think that either A) the MC-808 is not capable of these simple functions or B) i have a malfunctioning unit. i am hoping that there is simply some arcane setting i have missed (as i initially missed the SYNC mode). i actually have a call in to roland about this as well, and am waiting to hear back from them, so fellow MC-808 users stay tuned.

[bio4ema]

the MIDI footswitch is naturally suspect too

...

i've also just asked a friend if he has another MIDI device that can send simple start/stop commands via MIDI to see if the MC-808 responds

you could also try it using some software sequencer if you have the possibility to connect your 808 to a computer.

as far as the MIDI footswitch is concerned, all it does is send a simple MIDI message which i'm pretty sure the 808 recognises.

if you look at page 64 of the sound and parameter list booklet, it says that system realtime : commands are recognised.
"system realtime : commands" usually means start/stop/(continue) signals transmitted via MIDI.

let's see what the roland helpline tells you...

good luck,
b.

[darknessfalls]

ok, everybody loves a happy ending. so it turns out for various reasons the MIDIsolutions footswitch controller wasn't receiving programming info correctly. i sorted it out with john fast, the inventor, and now IT WORKS!

i also made an amzing discovery - regardless of the descriptions of their function, for such a footswitch i needed an UNLATCHED when i've been using a LATCHED. both work, but the 5L would require me to hit it twice each time to do anything, while the 5U toggles on/off even though this is touted as a momentary footswitch for applications such as a sustain pedal.

HOWEVER...here's the catch. for me even having to use all this BS is irritating when roland could have just put a simple footswitch jack in. the one bright spot is that i could also put a MIDI mouse in the chain and change programs up and down with another foot tap.

at least in theory. according to the MIDI implementation chart on the MC-808, sequencer section program changes are accepted. in fact i have the dedicated setting for that all ready: "Rx Prog Change=ON". sam resulkts as before: the MIDI mouse will change patches within a pattern, but will not change patterns or (most importantly) songs. all i want to do is have all the songs for a set in order (e.g. songs 1-10) and instead of bending down after each song, all i have to do is tap the footswitch and the next song is ready to go. is this too much to ask?

[darknessfalls]

well apparently it is too much to ask. when looking at the MIDI implementation chart, buried in the back of the sound & parameter list, i saw an "X" next to "song select". there is an "O" on "song position" i'm not sure what the later is but the former is what i was trying to use the MIDI mouse to do.

i will confirm this with roland, and ask them if it's not possible now is it a potential software upgrade. because otherwise i bought this MIDImouse for nothing.

who would have thought such simple MIDI commands would be so difficult to implement?

[spiral]

I believe song position is a command sent at the start of each measure. The Electro-Harmonix 2880 looper responds to song position pointer so that it knows where the loop should be based on where the sequencer is.

http://www.borg.com/~jglatt/tech/midispec/ssp.htm

[darknessfalls]

i see, thanks. the weird thing is that while "song select" is not received, it says it does accept "program change" info, which is what i thought i was doing. but maybe it considers a program change to be the patches within a certain part, which it does change.