Taking my MC-808 back for REFUND

[Doug Crazy]

Sorry. Too much of a headache. I bought this thing to kinda get away from the PC. Now I find out that I can only use "Auto Chop" (a feature I was going to abuse) when using the PC editor software. Why Cant I just take the darn thing away from the PC and do some sample madness. And when I did use the auto chop while on the PC I could never get it to do the same thing on the 808. When you watch Mike do his magic on the video demo at namm it seems so easy. But its not. I really LOVE the sounds.... but this thing is far from having a productive workflow. And how about multi samples on different pads? NOPE. And when I called Roland to explain how to do this the guy gave me some long around the block version of how to do it. Once again... SLOWWWW WORKFLOW. I was exciteda bout getting this unit... but I have a day or two left to return it and I cant be stuck with this unit. If the price were about 300 dollars (all its worth) then I would keep it.

Sorry Roland.... try again.

[FunkDaddy]

Wow, only auto chops on the PC? That's pretty weak. That's a big selling point for the MC's too.

[Doug Crazy]

Indeed. MAtter of fact it barely mentions the chop feature in the Manual. And it doesnt show how its done. VERY BAD on Rolands part. After writing my initial last night I stayed up until 5 am trying to figure it out. I REALLY want it to work because the sounds on this thing are very nice. But its just not coming together like i want.

[Doug Crazy]

Well.. its official. Heard it from a ROLAND Rep. The MC-808 DOES NOT chop samples unless hooked to the software. Honestly, if you were looking to get this machine and step away from the PC (for sampling) its not a good bargain. The sounds are cool, but this machine is really not for people who like a quick workflow. Took mine back last night and I was pissed that it didnt work out, but this thing cost alot of money to not have pro sampling features. MIKE , let these people know the real deal. Your video is nice but its deceiving...(not blaming you) AND if you will do this. Please explain how after chopping the samples using the PC editor software, the user can get it to the PADs still chopped. I tried this for at leat 10 hours. The chop worked fine on the PC but when I wanted to switch back to my pads and play the same chops they are nowhere to be found

[SekondThought]

Doug Crazy - "The chop worked fine on the PC but when I wanted to switch back to my pads and play the same chops they are nowhere to be found".

I can't see how that is possible when the editor is directly editing samples inside the MC-808 itself. It's not transfering them onto the computer to be edited, the software is a remote editor, so the sounds stay inside the unit. From what I have read of your comments, you are either trying to hard or not trying hard enough.

Mike is not deceiving anyone. If you care to look at:

http://www.sonicstate.com/news/shownews.cfm?newsid=2549

You will see an almost identical video to the one featured on the Roland website and hear Mike say "Now I can take this loop here, use the sample editor, use the auto chop, slice it up", so I think you maybe should have looked around more and done your homework before buying a product and then complaining about what it can't do without the aid of software. Also, goto a store that has informed sales staff, so that they can inform you of anything you don't know about. I bought mine from Sound Control in Leeds and anything the guy's (and girls) there don't know, they just pick up a phone and find out (but then my local SC has a Roland Planet store inside it, with a trained Roland product specialist, so maybe I am more lucky than most when it comes to getting advice).

I'm enjoying mine and wouldn't change it for anything.

[Doug Crazy]

LOL.... Ummmm Who Are You??

First off, The main reason I got the MC808 (now returned) is to Chop samples and be away from my PC. With that said... the unit does not do that. The 909 did that so why take that feature away. And honestly you come off sounding like you are Mikes pet. I NEVER said HE was deceiving us I said the video was deceiving. Its not as simple as the video shows. The mc808 is a toy and I rushed into getting it because I thought it was a pro sampling unit. Thats my fault. Like the old saying goes you get what you pay for. Roland wont have to worry about my money being taken away from them because they will get it right back when I get the MV8000 ( which I do have experience on) Tried to cut corners and got stuck with a over priced dud (MC808) So you keep your toy Mr. Thought.... and keep ironing Mikes pants also...HAHHAHAHAHHAAA ...what a bum.

[bio4ema]

there are a few reasons why i bought an mc-808 but autochop is not one of them.

i knew before i got the unit, that some functions can only be acessed by using a computer, but since i have one that's fine with me.

also: autochop is quite nice and does save time, BUT you can do the same thing by hand using basic mathematics and a feeling for rythm.

so, although i accept your decision to take your 808 back for refund, since it doesn't live up to your expectations, i'm a bit surprised that apperently your only reason for returning it is the lack of on board autochop...

anyway, no need to get personal here (like you did in your reply to SekondThought ). you didn't like the 808, you returned it, everyone's happy, right ?

[Doug Crazy]

Yeah Everyone is Happy.

And I totally understand about mathematics and basic rhythm. I have been doing music for years. And Roland has always been my company of choice. Started with a W-30.

Now as far as getting personal with Sekond thought he deserved it. He left a link for a video that I did watch. But WAIT...thats not the only video out.

Check this one.

http://www.rolandus.com/products/produc ... arentId=72

Directly off of Rolands site. This is the one I saw in my research before buying.

Now when you watch the video you will notice about 60 percent of the way through that he plays an "old school" loop. He then goes on to slice it up USING THE BOX. He didnt touch the PC when slicing this particular loop. He even said "were gonna take that old school loop and slice it up like we would in the sample editor"

He didnt say "slice it up USING the sample editor" he said "slice it up LIKE WE WOULD IN THE SAMPLE EDITOR" which implies more than one way to do it. This is what i meant by the deceiving part. If it doesnt chop without the PC cool.... just dont advertise like it does.

And I am glad you also enjoy it. I never want someone to get ripped off. Thats not my nature. My mistake was getting this toy knowing full well I should have just gotten the MV8000 and stopped being so cheap. But thats my fault. I may go buy it later this week (the MV) just to put this BS behind me.

edit. I had to also add this. I looked at video link I left again just to make sure I didnt miss something. One more thing you will notice is that the loop he played on the PC is NOT the same loop that he chopped using the box. I say this just in case anyone wants to reply saying that he had chopped it during his segment where he was showing about the Software editor.

[SekondThought]

Doug Crazy - "LOL.... Ummmm Who Are You??"

MY REPLY: Who am I? I am someone who has been making music on a serious basis for 19 years, who's had an interest in electronic music for 27 years (I started when I got my first keyboard, aged 6), someone who has his own music production company, has a music manager (two actually, one for dance music and one for TV and film work), assisted in productions for Galaxy (105) radio and also someone who even once designed a product (or two) for Fairlight in Austrailia...is that okay?

Doug Crazy - "the mc808 is a toy"

MY REPLY: A poor workman will always blame his tools. If you really knew about Roland products, the fact that they had called it the MC-808 should have told you that maybe there was some slight feature downgrading from the MC-909 (the most obvious being it's screen and lack of dedicated controls). This should have alerted you and made you check it out more before you bought it, but as you said you "rushed into getting it because I thought it was a pro sampling unit", which it is, when hooked up to a computer via USB. Also, Roland didn't "cut corners", they just changed what the machine is able to do on it's own to bring the cost down and make it more available to a wider audience than the MC-909. Most people these days have a computer (be it Mac or PC), and as a lot of users will be using one to drag and drop samples into the MC-808 anyway, I guess Roland thought that (as the 808's screen is much smaller than the 909's), most people would rather edit samples on a computer display than directly from the unit itself. Lastly, from a marketing point of view, not everyone is willing to spend as much money on a groovebox as they were back in 2002 when the MC-909 was first introduced. If you were looking for a "pro sampling unit" from the start, you should have been looking at the MV-8000 (especially as you have "experience" with it), or maybe (if you wanted something with a strong synthesis engine and the ability to add SRX boards (like the 909)) a Fantom X6.

Doug Crazy - "so you keep your toy Mr. Thought"

MY REPLY: Oh, I will Mr. Crazy. I'll remember the fact that I've kept it everytime I buy something new to add to my studio from the royalty payments I recieve from making money remixing, writing and producing tracks with the aid of the MC-808 in my setup!

Doug Crazy - "HAHHAHAHAHHAAA ...what a bum"

MY REPLY: Doug "Crazy"? I could at this point ask if that's crazy by name and crazy by nature, but I won't because stooping to personal insults (as you have in your childish reply to me), would only bring me down to your level and I refuse to sink that far.

Doug Crazy - "you come off sounding like you are Mikes pet"

MY REPLY: Actually, I've never met him, though I do plan to go to winter NAMM 2007, so if he's there, I'll be sure to stop by and say hello to him. Would you like me to pass on your regards to him? No? Thought not.

Doug Crazy - "as far as getting personal with Sekond thought he deserved it. He left a link for a video that I did watch"

MY REPLY: I deserved you getting personal with me because I left you a link to a video you didn't watch!?!?! Hardly my fault if you only looked at one video of the MC-808 before you bought it (and yes, I have seen it, thanks). As I've already said, I won't stoop to your level and "get personal with you" in return, as you've already made yourself look foolish, without me insulting you at all and that's good enough for me.

bio4ema - Thank you for being fair minded and mature.

SekondThought
"Computers are cool, but hardware rules".

[Doug Crazy]

WOW.... You really spent alot ot time on your reply. You like to throw your "credits" around alot. Hmmmmm. You have a pretty impressive track record. But honestly it still doesn't touch what I have done in this business.I have been signed to a Major label, had number one records on the Billboard "Dance" chart and had my work in major motion pictures. I only say that because I detect you are trying to make me seem like someone who has no experience (because I am complaining).
But I won't even go into a argument about who has done what. Its kinda silly.

Now you should read over your original (bio should also). You are the one who made a remark directed at me. Trying to make it seem like I rushed to the store not knowing what I bought. When I came into this forum I only complained because I was upset at the MC-808. I directed my remarks at no one except Roland. And no not even Mike as I stated I wasn't blaming Him. So in closing I wish you success with the "808" ( I will leave the "toy" remark alone). I will have my success with the MV. And thanks for making my first experience with the Roland Forum "weird"

Oh and I have to add this.... I apologize for the "bum" and "Mikes pet" comments ..I admit that was a bit out of line.

End of story.

[SekondThought]

Thank you for a more acceptable reply.

I agree with you with the "who's done what", as at the end of the day, it is kinda silly. I wasn't throwing my credits around alot (I too have had chart records and also remixed some name acts, which I did not mention and won't, because it would be seen as name dropping), it's just that (in my experience of forums) there are a lot of fakes around and you never quite know who you're dealing with. I can see from your credits (taking them on tust, as anyone would have to), that you have a background within the industry.

In all fairness, you have (kind of) admitted that you did rush into getting one, but you also stated that you imagined (not unreasonably) it to be an improvement over the MC-909 (or at least have the same features and not less). What set the alarm bells ringing for me before I bought it was that it was "MC-808" and not "MC-1001" (or something like that). I guessed there would be some cut backs as the model number was below the 909, but when I saw that all it meant was still having those features from the 909 with the aid of a computer and not on the unit itself, I thought it was fair enough, looking at the lower asking price. Some people may not agree, and you are one of them because you want a standalone machine that doesn't depend on a computer and if you find the MV-8000 is a better choice for you, then that's great! Everyone is different and has different needs (and expectations).

This is also my first experience on a Roland forum and (believe me), I've found it to be just as weird as you have! Your apology is accepted about "bum" and "Mike's pet" remarks (which as you say were a bit out of line, and the only reason I spent a very long time on my reply and added some quite sarcastic responses myself was because of this, so I will also apologize for anything I may have said, then we're even).

As you say, end of story.

SekondThought
"Computers are cool, but hardware rules".

[Doug Crazy]

See. Now I feel better. Its funny but you never know who you wind up talking to in a forum, so either one of us could be doing more than the other.I got to tell you though I was VERY upset that it didn't chop the way I wanted it to. The main reason I was so mad is because I LOVED the sounds in it. I really wanted to keep it. And yeah as I continue to think on it I guess I did run to the store a bit fast. LOL. Once I calmed down I could see that. As stupid as it this sounds I wouldnt mine having the MV to sample and the MC-808 being controlled by it (for the sounds). So as I think on it it would be a chance I wind up buying it again ... which is strange.

My normal way of working is Software. I started with hardware years ago and got into Software until I basically had nothing but a midi keyboard as my hardware. I just miss having my hands on equipment. I will always use software to some degree but with my job I have to be in front of a Computer working on pro-tools (which I hate) 7 hours a day. So my eyes are fatigued. Thats why I was excited to get the unit also. To get away from the computer (which is why I fussed so much about having to chop on the PC)

Much (continued) Success.

[SekondThought]

Doug Crazy - "I started with hardware years ago and got into software until I basically had nothing but a midi keyboard as my hardware. I just miss having my hands on equipment".

MY REPLY: Snap! That's why I bought the MC-808 too! When I started out in '87, I was using a SCI Pro-One, a Roland TR-808 & SH-101, a Moog Source and a Korg Delta. It was looked down upon at the time, because everyone was getting into the D-50 and using Steinberg Pro-24, but it was all that could be afforded and it really did teach you how to make something out of nothing. Over the years, I moved on, getting various synths (Korg M-1, Roland JD-800 and so on), but in early 1999 my manager suggested I move away from the dance based setup I had (which had a Roland JP-8000 and SP-808 in it, which I loved and an Akai MPC2000 for sequencing), to get a full blown PC with Cubase VST and stupidly, I did.

For the next few years, all I did was spend money on software, plugins, upgrades and so on, and just when I thought I was up-to-date, something else would come along or was needed and it never seemed to end. In late 2000, I added an MPC2000XL-SE2, but I'd gotten so used to working just on the computer by then, that (when I went back to working on the MPC), I didn't seem to know what to do with it anymore. I then switched over to a Mac, thinking things would be better and more stable, but things just seemed to get worse, as OS X had just come out and there was a massive switch-over going on and nothing worked, so I was stuck in OS 9.2.2 most of the time.

Even at the start of this year, I got the latest Mac and went on yet another round of upgrades and money spending (not to mention the whole Intel Mac thing) and was shocked to notice how (over this time) my musical output had dropped (to the point of almost nothing). I've tried everything to get back to the feel of hardware (while still using software), recently buying fxpansions GURU and a Korg padKONTROL, but it still wasn't right and I was becoming more and more unhappy.

Now, with the MC-808 here, I feel a lot more happy. I can load it up with samples and take it out of the room and go anywhere in the house with it (or just turn the computer off). I'm planning on adding to it in the next few weeks, as I'm selling some of the more computer orientated products to get more hardware back. I think a Korg Radias or Access Virus Ti would make a great addition. I'm even tempted to look at Roland's own SH-201 as well, after seeing this...

http://www.gearjunkies.com/news_info.php?news_id=1362

...though I got an e-mail from Roland this morning, saying we won't see the SH-201 here until the end of July.

With regard to the MV-8000, it wouldn't surprise me if we saw a new version at winter NAMM 2007. After all, we're on software version 3.5 and I'm sure it's going to get the colour screen treatment that the Fantom series got a few years ago, as it's been out for a while now, so I wouldn't be shocked to see an "MV-9000" sometime soon.

Much (continued) Success to you too!

SekondThought
"Computers are cool, but hardware rules".

[mike acosta]

Hi Doug

Well lets keep in mind that when i shoot videos at NAMM they are on the spot , no re-takes , no cuts , no rehersals , just shoot and go due to timing and crowds.

The MC-808 does Auto-Chop , but yes it only does it via the software editor ( for now ) ..... When i shot my video , the loop i showed in the editor was different than the 1 that was chopped , the reason is again , i only have a few minutes to knock a demo out . so what i meant to say in the video was ....... im gonna slice this loop up as i did the one in the editor , meaning i would have to slice the NEW loop up the same way as i did the previous in the editor but because i didnt have enough time to show the whole process of auto chopping a new loop , i just had to go with one that i had already did ( in the editor ).

The MC-808 is by far not a toy especially for the price and the features and sounds that it comes with. Sampled drums sound killer on that new engine in there as well as the new synth & drum patchs myself and a bunch of other talented producers put together.

Sorry it didnt work out for you but sounds like you really needed to be on a MV-8000 anyway , the MC-808 would have made a perfect sound module to go along side it. I think you should have just hung in there a bit longer and gave it some more time but you seem to be on your way to the MV-8000 so your mos def moving up in the right direction for killer sample based production.

Cant we all just get along ?

Mike Acosta - Roland U.S
www.rolandus.com
Heres a video on the MC-808
http://www.rolandus.com/products/produc ... arentId=84

[Doug Crazy]

Yeah... thanks Mike. I went off the deep end because like I said I REALLY wanted it to work for me. I was just upset. Anyway realize that I wasn't directing it towards you .... and hope it didn't come off that way.

Thanks


D