JUNO-G + Cakewalk SONAR 8.5LE = Doubled drums

[BillArnette]

In the 3 years I've had my Juno-G I haven't really tried using it with Sonar until now. I updated to Sonar 8.5LE and now have a project to try with it. Prior to that, my experience with a DAW was with the DOS version of Cakewalk (3.0?) back in the 90's with my Roland D-10 and an MPU-401. It wasn't called a DAW back then. ;)

Anyway I am trying to make a backing track for my son to play guitar along with at his upcoming school talent show. I downloaded a MIDI file that I will edit to bring it under 2 minutes. I brought it into Sonar and assigned all the tracks to output to the Juno-G and set the Juno-G performance to Seq: GM2 Template and it plays pretty well. But...

The drums are doubled.

I tried everything I could think of; make sure MIDI Thru is off on both Sonar and the Juno. Turn off local switch. etc.

While messing around, I went into Part View on the JG and noticed that both channel 10 and 11 were set to the rhythm set Standard Kit1. So on the JG I went to channel 11 and tried to change it back to Piano 1. But when I changed it, Channel 10 changed too. But if I changed Channel 10, Channel 11 did not change. After more playing with it, I came to find that Channel 15 was also linked in this manner.

Any ideas what is going on here?
Is Cakewalk passing thru program changes made on channel 11 back to the Juno-G on channel 10?

If it helps the MIDI file is Stray Cat Strut from here
http://users1.ee.net/lstone/midi.htm

and I used Roland's online tool to create an Instrument Definition File for the Juno-G to use with Sonar.

[V-CeeOh]

To work with MIDI Files, always start with an "blank" Performance, meaning, each part has it's own midi channel. And star from scratch with the patch assign. I also would advise you to erase all Program Changes, CCs and Sysex messages, at least from the initial measures of the Song. These most often send lots of events that mess with the sounds configuration. You can get a "cleaner" file if you do so. Then, yes, make sure you have the Juno "Local" set to OFF.

[Mystic38]

Bill,

I did nothing more than connect the JG, download that midi file, set the Juno as the midi output and selected the GM2 template performance and everything plays back just fine... there is no doubled drums.

I suggest a reset on your part .. start from scratch and simply change the patches from GM to JG as required

[BillArnette]

OK. I will try the above suggestions when I get home tonight. One other thing I forgot to mention is that my Juno-G is still the last 1.0x revision. I have not updated to 2.0 yet. Don't know if that has any bearing on it.

When I first set it up, I didn't manually set any parts on the JG. I just selected the "GM2 Template" Performance. I did set the bank and preset on the tracks in Sonar though.

I did reboot the JG and restart Sonar and got the same thing. I was playing around with the MIDI file and the Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth prior to connecting the Juno. Maybe I screwed something up in the MIDI file doing that. I'll re-download the file and try again tonight.

[BillArnette]

As a follow-up question. To what "Instrument" should I map the Juno-G too? General MIDI, Roland GS, or the definition file I created with Roland's online tool?

I know this is basic stuff, but Sonar is way more complex than Cakewalk used to be and its been 10+ years since I really messed with MIDI sequencing. I have been using the JG's on-board sequencer ever since I got it.

[Mystic38]

Bill,
I wrote exactly what i did.. I spent more time finding a spare USB cord than to check this out :)

i made no per part patch selections on the JG
I made no per track assignments in Sonar at all... (ie no patch assignments, no instrument assignments)

GM is just that.. at least in this case....

[BillArnette]

OK. Did as you said. I put the JG into Performance mode. Loaded the MIDI file in Sonar. It asked me if I wanted the SysEx data to be sent to the synth; to which I said Yes. And then when I play it, the drums (and only the drums) are doubled. I can tell because the hats have a phased sound to them and I have no MFX assigned to the drum track/channel.

[V-CeeOh]

My guess is that the sysex data it setting another part to play drums (setting another part at channel 10). Check how's the part setting in the Juno or try to play the song without the sysex (say no when Sonar asks you to send it)

[V-CeeOh]

Another thing could be a doubled track in the song file but since it plays fine with Mystic Juno I would go for the sysex doing it.

[BillArnette]

I tried it again. This time I didn't send the sysex data but it is still doubling channel 10. The sysex data has only one command; turn on GM mode. Examining the event list for channel 11, there is a bunch of CC121, a volume setting, a pan setting, and a program change event; no note events.

So I tried to start with a new song and just record a few measures of drums on channel 10. No doubling. So it certainly appears to be something with the file.

[Mystic38]

same file, same software, same instrument and different results?.. hmm curiouser and curiouser said Alice...

[BillArnette]

i'm sure it's something i'm doing. i just can't for the life of me figure out what.

[Pap]

General Midi should work (at least it worked when I tried it with Frinika as the software midi sequencer)... I would say, try to use Frinika for a moment, as you actually don't have to install anything (just running a Java jar file). it's worth a try because it will help us realize what causes the problem (Sonar or Juno-G). Just import your midi file to Frinika (with General Midi program changes included), and play it with your Juno-G connected in performance mode PRST 02 (Seq Template). See if the problem is still there. If not, the problem has to do with Sonar LE itself, and you have to try to remove any program change events in the midi file, software midi thru etc.

I have to say here that I'm having big problems when importing a midi file to Juno-G. I can see the tracks, but when I try to play the song, I hear nothing and it is not editable anymore. My guess is it has to do with program change events as well.

In any case, the ultimate solution is to make a Cakewalk instrument definition file for the Juno-G, which, surprisingly well, is not available. This will help making use of every patch in Juno-G, including all preset and patches (not only GM patches), and even samples as well. I am planning to make such an instrument definition file within the week. Stay tuned ;)

[BillArnette]

Thanks Pap. I'll give Frinika a try. I hadn't heard of that one. I have Anvil Studio (also free) but I haven't tried it with the Juno-G yet.

As for an instrument definition file, you can create one for the factory setup at Roland's web site.
http://www.rolandus.com/support/patch_s ... /index.php

[Mystic38]

dont reinvent the wheel folks... an .ins file for the patches and rhythm sets is freely available.. pm me with email address if u need one..or simply search online :)