Syncing Fantom with Cubase

[ChrisDuncan]

Hey, guys.

Everyone's been so helpful as I worked through my problems that I wanted to share some info in return. Hopefully this will help future Cubase users trying to get sync working.

I discovered that when I set Cubase as the slave to do external sync with the Fantom, it wouldn't respond. The MIDI implementation manual uses somewhat ambiguous terminology for the time that they send when the Fantom is set to MASTER and sync is ON. After a conversation with Roland support, I was able to clear this up.

The Fantom does not send MIDI Timecode. It only sends MIDI Clock. Cubase, on the other hand, will not slave to MIDI Clock. It only works with MIDI Timecode. Consequently, it's not possible to use Cubase as a slave and the Fantom as the master for syncing.

That said, Cubase does transmit MIDI Clock, so if you set the Fantom to SLAVE and set up Cubase as the master, the Fantom will wait for Cubase and sync with it.

While syncing with Cubase as the master does work, I've found that my preferred way to get the songs I create in the Fantom into Cubase is to export the MIDI file from the Fantom. I import it into Cubase, create audio tracks corresponding to the Zones (i.e. MIDI channels) used in the song, arm them for record and then hit the record button. This sends the individual MIDI parts to the appropriate Fantom zone, and the audio comes into Cubase from the Fantom accordingly (be sure you have USB audio set to PARALLEL in the Fantom to get individual tracks, as FGM pointed out to me). This process involves no syncing, but the tradeoff is the export / import of the song MIDI file.

So, you can sync with Cubase if the Fantom is a slave, and an alternate method to get your songs into Cubase is to export the song MIDI file.

I hope this helps someone down the line as much as you guys have helped me.

Chris

[FGM]

Hey, guys.

Everyone's been so helpful as I worked through my problems that I wanted to share some info in return. Hopefully this will help future Cubase users trying to get sync working.

I discovered that when I set Cubase as the slave to do external sync with the Fantom, it wouldn't respond. The MIDI implementation manual uses somewhat ambiguous terminology for the time that they send when the Fantom is set to MASTER and sync is ON. After a conversation with Roland support, I was able to clear this up.

The Fantom does not send MIDI Timecode. It only sends MIDI Clock. Cubase, on the other hand, will not slave to MIDI Clock. It only works with MIDI Timecode. Consequently, it's not possible to use Cubase as a slave and the Fantom as the master for syncing.

That said, Cubase does transmit MIDI Clock, so if you set the Fantom to SLAVE and set up Cubase as the master, the Fantom will wait for Cubase and sync with it.

While syncing with Cubase as the master does work, I've found that my preferred way to get the songs I create in the Fantom into Cubase is to export the MIDI file from the Fantom. I import it into Cubase, create audio tracks corresponding to the Zones (i.e. MIDI channels) used in the song, arm them for record and then hit the record button. This sends the individual MIDI parts to the appropriate Fantom zone, and the audio comes into Cubase from the Fantom accordingly (be sure you have USB audio set to PARALLEL in the Fantom to get individual tracks, as FGM pointed out to me). This process involves no syncing, but the tradeoff is the export / import of the song MIDI file.

So, you can sync with Cubase if the Fantom is a slave, and an alternate method to get your songs into Cubase is to export the song MIDI file.

I hope this helps someone down the line as much as you guys have helped me.

Chris

Thank you.

I don't quite understand the IMPORTING A SONG way of getting a song into that DAW. Moreover when linear recording in Fantom
is so limited...

Don't you think just hitting play in Fantom would be easier?

I might have 32 tracks, 16 for MIDI, 16 for audio, dedicated to Fantom, to record the scene, nothing more needed.

Then, when building a song reaching say 170 tracks, I deploy firstly a master track receiving just MIDI channel 1 that then sends to many other tracks (isolated from any MIDI input) having scripts for whatever I need (keyboard range. velocoties on a per key basis, add fixed notes, transposition...) that ultimately send those orders to each VST, also isolated from MIDI.

Fantom using tempo 40 at the highest due to the 64 measures limit, and the DAW at 120.

Hit record in DAW, and either hit play in Fantom (to rescue it from Fantom) or play the song with the manualier and the pedalier (🤪🤪🤪🤪) and see your song there, recorded...

No ????

😀😀😀😀
🎹🎹🎹🎹

[ChrisDuncan]

It's true that you can just press record on Cubase and then play on the Fantom, and you'll get your song recorded.

I do it this way to ensure no timing issues if I want to add additional MIDI tracks in Cubase independent of the Fantom. By importing the MIDI file and having it control the Fantom, I know that the song starts at exactly 1.0.0. No matter how fast my fingers are, there will always be a delay between the start of recording in Cubase and the receiving of audio after pressing play on the Fantom. That would, of course, cause timing issues between the Fantom data and new MIDI data created in Cubase.

Granted, for some people this will never be a consideration if the only thing they're ever using is the Fantom audio. This only matters if you care about the song in Cubase starting at exactly 1.0.0.

[FGM]

It's true that you can just press record on Cubase and then play on the Fantom, and you'll get your song recorded.

I do it this way to ensure no timing issues if I want to add additional MIDI tracks in Cubase independent of the Fantom. By importing the MIDI file and having it control the Fantom, I know that the song starts at exactly 1.0.0. No matter how fast my fingers are, there will always be a delay between the start of recording in Cubase and the receiving of audio after pressing play on the Fantom. That would, of course, cause timing issues between the Fantom data and new MIDI data created in Cubase.

Granted, for some people this will never be a consideration if the only thing they're ever using is the Fantom audio. This only matters if you care about the song in Cubase starting at exactly 1.0.0.

I thought it might be that you are veeeery comfortable with the Fantom's internal sequencer and prefer to use it for composition and recording, but now that I see your reasoning, don't quite understand it at all.

What if the song recording starts at 0.0.123 or 1.2.985 or 4.3.678 according to the DAW ?
It's all the same...isn't it ?
Even tempo is a mere concept.
We are hearing a song from start to end.
Carmina Burana does not need to start exactly when Big Ben strikes three...????

And even adding will just need pointing the mouse and say paste, whatever the numbers in the basement might be.

Anyway...

😀😀😀😀
🎹🎹🎹🎹

[ChrisDuncan]

I actually did buy the Fantom so that I could do composition and recording on it. I think the workflow is brilliant, and while I'm also excited to have the classic Roland synths, that was the main selling feature.

Working in a DAW, it's cleaner for me if beat 1 of a song actually starts on 1.0.0. Of course, you can ignore the beats, measures and grid if you like and just treat a DAW like a tape machine. However, especially in modern music, being able to reliably align things to the grid can be an important consideration. When I'm editing or doing other things in a beat(s) or measure(s) context, there's no worrying about doing the math and shifting everything by 0.0.123 so that it'll all line up. The click track begins at 1.0.0, and is reliably at x.0.0 on every measure.

My first recording experiences were done with "sound on sound" reel to reel tape machines, before I had access to multitrack. I went through the normal progression of multitrack cassettes, bigger tape machines, ADATs, dedicated hard disk recorders, and finally computers. I'm comfortable with the concept of just roll the tape and the song starts when it starts, even working without a click track. That said, I'm delighted to be working on computers and I love how easy it is to get things done without razor blades, bouncing and other such adventures.

Mostly it's just different preferences in how we work. Your workflow is very straightforward and easy to do. Mine takes a bit more effort in copying the MIDI file, but what I get in return is important for my workflow. I think the main thing is that we're all able to do things in whatever way works best for us. Pretty cool to have all these options.

[FGM]

I actually did buy the Fantom so that I could do composition and recording on it. I think the workflow is brilliant, and while I'm also excited to have the classic Roland synths, that was the main selling feature.

Working in a DAW, it's cleaner for me if beat 1 of a song actually starts on 1.0.0. Of course, you can ignore the beats, measures and grid if you like and just treat a DAW like a tape machine. However, especially in modern music, being able to reliably align things to the grid can be an important consideration. When I'm editing or doing other things in a beat(s) or measure(s) context, there's no worrying about doing the math and shifting everything by 0.0.123 so that it'll all line up. The click track begins at 1.0.0, and is reliably at x.0.0 on every measure.

My first recording experiences were done with "sound on sound" reel to reel tape machines, before I had access to multitrack. I went through the normal progression of multitrack cassettes, bigger tape machines, ADATs, dedicated hard disk recorders, and finally computers. I'm comfortable with the concept of just roll the tape and the song starts when it starts, even working without a click track. That said, I'm delighted to be working on computers and I love how easy it is to get things done without razor blades, bouncing and other such adventures.

Mostly it's just different preferences in how we work. Your workflow is very straightforward and easy to do. Mine takes a bit more effort in copying the MIDI file, but what I get in return is important for my workflow. I think the main thing is that we're all able to do things in whatever way works best for us. Pretty cool to have all these options.

Heard about The triumph of Melody...

Then learned The Triumph of Harmony and Melody.

Currently exploring The Triumph of Harmony, Melody, and Synchronization.

A new thing under the Sun...for me !!!!

Manualier, pedalier and mouselier !!!! (Copyleft)

In a nutshell, it implies achieving a musical masterpiece where harmony, tuneful melodies, and precise coordination of musical elements combine to create an exceptional and pleasing composition.

I am all ears !!!!

😀😀😀😀
🎹🎹🎹🎹