Dakota on a JUno Stage
Dakota on a JUno Stage
Hi Folks, As a newby to the forum and to keyboards ( I am a lapsed bass player!) I am getting up to speed with my Juno Stage. Used it only as a control station with Nuendo to date but now need toplay it live. One of the tracks I am struggling with is Dakota by Stereophonics. Can the Stage reproduce the opening sequence? If so how do I acheive the right sound? (or damn close approximation)
Thanks all.
Thanks all.
Re: Dakota on a JUno Stage
Hi DoctorG,
When you mean the complete sequence: I'm afraid it can't, unless you use a midifile to play it. When you mean only the sound, I might me able to help you in the right direction. I'm not able to create a sound right now (my Juno Stage is stored in the basement at the moment), but here are some hints:
First you may start out with a Saw-tooth (or maybe a 30% pulse) waveform synth bass sound. You can get it from one of the many preset patches or create it from scratch (INIT PATCH). Edit the TVA and TVF settings to match the original, you can set a long release time (T4 > 90) and switch to SOLO to make the sound remain between keystrokes.
Copy this tone to a second tone and set the coarse pitch of this tone to +7 or +19 to create the higher (fifth) note. Adjust the level and cutoff of the tones to your needs.
Run the whole through a MFX set to Flanger and make sure the rate is slow and the depth is as you need (experiment). Leave out any 'dry' signal. As far as I can hear you can leave out any reverb and chorus. Maybe a slight reverb and/or chorus AFTER the MFX can create some extra depth, but don't make the sound drown! You need it to be punchy!
Now turn on PORTAMENTO, set it to TIME and select a short value (I guess about 30 or 40) to create the sliding pitch sound.
Now you should have the synthy sound you need. Of course you can layer it in a Performance with a realistic bass-sound to have that covered as well, but I don't know if that will work throughout the whole of the song. You might want to use the arpeggiator to make it a lot easier to keep the 'tightness' but the rest of the band will have to keep perfect sync with your keyboard, OR you have to adjust the rate constantly (that's terrible, I have experienced that!).
I hope with these hints you can set up the sound you need. When they don't work for you, please let me know, I'll try and set up a patch for you and pass it on to you.
When you mean the complete sequence: I'm afraid it can't, unless you use a midifile to play it. When you mean only the sound, I might me able to help you in the right direction. I'm not able to create a sound right now (my Juno Stage is stored in the basement at the moment), but here are some hints:
First you may start out with a Saw-tooth (or maybe a 30% pulse) waveform synth bass sound. You can get it from one of the many preset patches or create it from scratch (INIT PATCH). Edit the TVA and TVF settings to match the original, you can set a long release time (T4 > 90) and switch to SOLO to make the sound remain between keystrokes.
Copy this tone to a second tone and set the coarse pitch of this tone to +7 or +19 to create the higher (fifth) note. Adjust the level and cutoff of the tones to your needs.
Run the whole through a MFX set to Flanger and make sure the rate is slow and the depth is as you need (experiment). Leave out any 'dry' signal. As far as I can hear you can leave out any reverb and chorus. Maybe a slight reverb and/or chorus AFTER the MFX can create some extra depth, but don't make the sound drown! You need it to be punchy!
Now turn on PORTAMENTO, set it to TIME and select a short value (I guess about 30 or 40) to create the sliding pitch sound.
Now you should have the synthy sound you need. Of course you can layer it in a Performance with a realistic bass-sound to have that covered as well, but I don't know if that will work throughout the whole of the song. You might want to use the arpeggiator to make it a lot easier to keep the 'tightness' but the rest of the band will have to keep perfect sync with your keyboard, OR you have to adjust the rate constantly (that's terrible, I have experienced that!).
I hope with these hints you can set up the sound you need. When they don't work for you, please let me know, I'll try and set up a patch for you and pass it on to you.
Re: Dakota on a JUno Stage
Cheers Martijn,
It was the sound I was after. I have had a play the last few nights in between entertaining a 2 yr old! Its been a good way of learning how to program effects. I was almost there but you have suggested a few ideas I hadn't thought of so thats great.
I think its better I simply play the part as my experience with the arpeggiator is similar to your by the sound of it. I thought the drummer was pretty tight but without a click track to keep him on tempo, it was a nightmare!
Thanks again,
DoctorG
It was the sound I was after. I have had a play the last few nights in between entertaining a 2 yr old! Its been a good way of learning how to program effects. I was almost there but you have suggested a few ideas I hadn't thought of so thats great.
I think its better I simply play the part as my experience with the arpeggiator is similar to your by the sound of it. I thought the drummer was pretty tight but without a click track to keep him on tempo, it was a nightmare!
Thanks again,
DoctorG
Re: Dakota on a JUno Stage
Hey Martijn,
Tried your ideas and played with some of the values you suggested. Getting closer to the sound I am after and learning more all the time.
If you have the time I would appreciate your ofer of providing a suitable patch. It'd be cool just to Hear it but also to see how you put it together.
Cheers,
DoctorG
Tried your ideas and played with some of the values you suggested. Getting closer to the sound I am after and learning more all the time.
If you have the time I would appreciate your ofer of providing a suitable patch. It'd be cool just to Hear it but also to see how you put it together.
Cheers,
DoctorG
Re: Dakota on a JUno Stage
Still strugglin' DoctorG?
Here's my suggestion for you. I tried to create something like the original. It's here for you to download:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/20193445/User133_Dakota.mid
To be safe, make a backup of all your user-data in the Juno Stage!
Connect your Juno Stage to your PC/MAC using USB and run the Juno Stage Librarian (can be downloaded from the Roland website).
Use the Juno Stage librarian to import SMF and select the file you downloaded through the link. Select (the only) patch 133 in the Librarian called Dakota (and backup your own user-patch 133 before you continue, if you have anything useful there). Then choose Write SELECTED(!) and after you confirm your USER 133 patch will be named Dakota. Before you start the song by banging the E3-note, make sure that before you do, strike the A2-note first. This is for the 'sliding' sound at the start of the song.
Maybe you like to tweak some of the parameters, first try the EQ in the MFX Flanger settings for adjusting highs and lows in the overal sounds. I added a little delay, which I think really suits this song and fits the original tempo, but you might want to change this time a little. With arpeggiator it sounded really tight and spot on, but I also managed to play it by hand. Other things you might want to tweak are T2 in the TVF's of tones 1, 2 and 3 and the depth of the TVF envelopes, etc.
Tone 1: bass-note (Pitch -12)
Tone 2: fifth-note (Pitch +7)
Tone 3: to make it sound fuller (Pitch 0)
Tone 4: OFF
I hope you like it.
Cheers from The Netherlands,
Martijn
Here's my suggestion for you. I tried to create something like the original. It's here for you to download:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/20193445/User133_Dakota.mid
To be safe, make a backup of all your user-data in the Juno Stage!
Connect your Juno Stage to your PC/MAC using USB and run the Juno Stage Librarian (can be downloaded from the Roland website).
Use the Juno Stage librarian to import SMF and select the file you downloaded through the link. Select (the only) patch 133 in the Librarian called Dakota (and backup your own user-patch 133 before you continue, if you have anything useful there). Then choose Write SELECTED(!) and after you confirm your USER 133 patch will be named Dakota. Before you start the song by banging the E3-note, make sure that before you do, strike the A2-note first. This is for the 'sliding' sound at the start of the song.
Maybe you like to tweak some of the parameters, first try the EQ in the MFX Flanger settings for adjusting highs and lows in the overal sounds. I added a little delay, which I think really suits this song and fits the original tempo, but you might want to change this time a little. With arpeggiator it sounded really tight and spot on, but I also managed to play it by hand. Other things you might want to tweak are T2 in the TVF's of tones 1, 2 and 3 and the depth of the TVF envelopes, etc.
Tone 1: bass-note (Pitch -12)
Tone 2: fifth-note (Pitch +7)
Tone 3: to make it sound fuller (Pitch 0)
Tone 4: OFF
I hope you like it.
Cheers from The Netherlands,
Martijn
Re: Dakota on a JUno Stage
...just an addition: by striking the A2 note, I mean after you select the patch and before you start the song, preferably with the volume turned down. Then when you start the song, the note slides from A2 to E3 on the first note, like in the original track.
Re: Dakota on a JUno Stage
Much appreciated Martijn,
I look forward to having a play with your creation and thanks for the advice.
G
I look forward to having a play with your creation and thanks for the advice.
G
Re: Dakota on a JUno Stage
Hey DoctorG,
Please let me know how it works out for you. I hope you get my patch into your Juno Stage when you follow my descriptions. I could not manage to get it to you in another (easier) way, so I hope this works and above all I hope you like the sound of it.
Greetings from The Netherlands,
Martijn
Please let me know how it works out for you. I hope you get my patch into your Juno Stage when you follow my descriptions. I could not manage to get it to you in another (easier) way, so I hope this works and above all I hope you like the sound of it.
Greetings from The Netherlands,
Martijn
Re: Dakota on a JUno Stage
Hi DoctorG,
Have you tried the patch already? Or couldn't you get it to work in your JS? Please let me know, I really would like to know if you like the patch I created.
Grtz. Martijn
Have you tried the patch already? Or couldn't you get it to work in your JS? Please let me know, I really would like to know if you like the patch I created.
Grtz. Martijn
Re: Dakota on a JUno Stage
Hey Sorry for not getting back to you Martin,
I did like the patch thanks. I have tweaked it a bit, but the other guys in the band also think its pretty cool. Its interesting but such a fairly simple addition makes a huge difference to the song overall!
Thanks again,
DrG
I did like the patch thanks. I have tweaked it a bit, but the other guys in the band also think its pretty cool. Its interesting but such a fairly simple addition makes a huge difference to the song overall!
Thanks again,
DrG
Re: Dakota on a JUno Stage
Anyone know the closest pre-programmed patch for this on a Juno DS pls?