kenchan, thanks for the insight. actually, i'm not at all interested in classical playing/recording. more like jazz/pop influenced arrangements. so i'm looking for a "sweet" or "mellow" relaxed sound vs extreme dynamics. would probably compress anyway.
so i'm wondering if you find the CP's acoustic piano voices sweeter/mellower then the VP. not that you can't mellow out the VP by softening hammers/ changing EQ. but from listening to solopianodiary.com demos of the cp1- it has a very very clear but subdued timbre.
i do wonder about the light action keyboard. i imagine you adapt to it. the CP50 would be an alternative i guess with its graded keyboard, but i wonder if they've diluted the acoustic piano offerings too much...
I can see where anyone who performs live - particularly smooth jazz type music- would absolutely be all over the CP1. what a great stage instrument...
V-Piano in ken's music room..
Re: V-Piano in ken's music room..
The CP1 does have smooth and mellow piano's and it's a rich sound. Especially with the hammer setting on soft it can sound very good. Since u mention u plan on compressing it, etc. it might actually work out better.
If u play the VP back to back with the CP the sample loop is very noticable on the CP. In that respect the RD700GXF sounds a lot more natural. But the CF sample is so nice i tend to not hear the loop so much. Imo the S9 sample is very rough but with the right amt of sympathetic resonance it sounds very smooth. Its a preference thing really, hahahaha.
I dont mind the CP's keybed at all. They feel very good while playing EP's. the '73 tines is my favorite. :p
If u play the VP back to back with the CP the sample loop is very noticable on the CP. In that respect the RD700GXF sounds a lot more natural. But the CF sample is so nice i tend to not hear the loop so much. Imo the S9 sample is very rough but with the right amt of sympathetic resonance it sounds very smooth. Its a preference thing really, hahahaha.
I dont mind the CP's keybed at all. They feel very good while playing EP's. the '73 tines is my favorite. :p
Re: V-Piano in ken's music room..
your sample loop comment just sold me on staying with the V-Piano and working on getting the right sound out of it. sounds like i would be taking a step way back in authenticity using the CP1 if all I want is a natural sounding acoustic piano.
Thanks Kenchan, you just saved me a lot of money!
I have thought about getting the cp5 or cp50 at some point for a second board for other voices. or maybe someday a CP1 off of eBay. its amazing how cheap you can buy these boards when someone decides they don't like them and then try to unload it.... if i were to sell my 1 year old V-Piano right now i doubt i would get over 50-60% of its full value.
regards,
boehnbr
Thanks Kenchan, you just saved me a lot of money!
I have thought about getting the cp5 or cp50 at some point for a second board for other voices. or maybe someday a CP1 off of eBay. its amazing how cheap you can buy these boards when someone decides they don't like them and then try to unload it.... if i were to sell my 1 year old V-Piano right now i doubt i would get over 50-60% of its full value.
regards,
boehnbr
Re: V-Piano in ken's music room..
I was happy with the nord+VP setup until i got the CP1. The EP's in the CP just blows the nord away. Hahahaha. Im a tines player.
Re: V-Piano in ken's music room..
haven't posted in a while.... no big change. but did re-organize my music room over the weekend to better match my current music lifestyle. :p
as for the VPiano, im saving up some $ to buy new monitors to replace the HS50M's down the road. im planning to get new Focals for my music room and move the HS80M's to the VPiano in the living room. not sure yet but that is the basic plan. the HS50M's have too much mid-range and i dont like using much EQ to contour sound so going to replace entirely.
meanwhile ive re-configured the nord so that i can use its keybed to control my Akai drum machine for when i need to program some bass loops. ive found that the nord is very flexible when it comes to these controller type setups. basically i can be playing the nord from my CP1 while programming the Akai's bass tones off the nord's keybed using Panel2 mode.
this winter my plan is to get a new expansion card for my FantomG8 and perhaps a simple mxr overdrive pedal to send/receive for my CP1's tines.
as for the VPiano, im saving up some $ to buy new monitors to replace the HS50M's down the road. im planning to get new Focals for my music room and move the HS80M's to the VPiano in the living room. not sure yet but that is the basic plan. the HS50M's have too much mid-range and i dont like using much EQ to contour sound so going to replace entirely.
meanwhile ive re-configured the nord so that i can use its keybed to control my Akai drum machine for when i need to program some bass loops. ive found that the nord is very flexible when it comes to these controller type setups. basically i can be playing the nord from my CP1 while programming the Akai's bass tones off the nord's keybed using Panel2 mode.
this winter my plan is to get a new expansion card for my FantomG8 and perhaps a simple mxr overdrive pedal to send/receive for my CP1's tines.
Re: V-Piano in ken's music room..
over the weekend i programmed the CP1's 2nd tone generator to sound the 2nd and 3rd string resonance effect on my piano sounds.
one main weakness of the CP1 is the sample loop you can hear after the tone decays a little bit on the piano's. (no issue on the EP's). it's an annoying lifeless loop. so wat i did was took the 2nd tone generator using the same piano as the 1st generator but ran a softer hammer setting at about 50% or less of the volume, made the keyoff and release so that it does not affect the 1st generator tone and finally, added chorus with slow speed. i detuned the 2nd generator a little bit and fine tuned the chorus and volume level until i was able to put some life in the loop without making it sound artificial or abrupt. it's a very subtle touch but makes all the difference.... if you're picky like me i suppose.
took me like 2hrs to get it to where i was satisified but it sounds great now. :p im still working on the S6 sample as it has a more pronounced lifeless loop, but my main piano, the CF, sounds fantastic. i should've thought about this sooner. lol
ofcourse i checked polyphony playing different passages repetitively hitting the same key, hitting one low note with damper pedal and playing a long arppegiation with pedal continuously down, etc. no issue.
after playing with my VPiano (and the supernatural RD at the stores), that lifeless loop kept bugging me even more. roland did a great job on the decay on the RD's.
one main weakness of the CP1 is the sample loop you can hear after the tone decays a little bit on the piano's. (no issue on the EP's). it's an annoying lifeless loop. so wat i did was took the 2nd tone generator using the same piano as the 1st generator but ran a softer hammer setting at about 50% or less of the volume, made the keyoff and release so that it does not affect the 1st generator tone and finally, added chorus with slow speed. i detuned the 2nd generator a little bit and fine tuned the chorus and volume level until i was able to put some life in the loop without making it sound artificial or abrupt. it's a very subtle touch but makes all the difference.... if you're picky like me i suppose.
took me like 2hrs to get it to where i was satisified but it sounds great now. :p im still working on the S6 sample as it has a more pronounced lifeless loop, but my main piano, the CF, sounds fantastic.
i should've thought about this sooner. lol ofcourse i checked polyphony playing different passages repetitively hitting the same key, hitting one low note with damper pedal and playing a long arppegiation with pedal continuously down, etc. no issue.
after playing with my VPiano (and the supernatural RD at the stores), that lifeless loop kept bugging me even more. roland did a great job on the decay on the RD's.
Re: V-Piano in ken's music room..
im downloading the new grand imperial from nord's site. will see how it sounds later on. i hope nord got rid of that ridiculous keyoff resonance... they always put too much emphasis on it and makes the piano's sound like crap down low during fast passages.
Re: V-Piano in ken's music room..
Im trying out the latest bosendorfer grand imperial. It sounds pretty good and not much keyoff resonance which is a big plus. The VPiano's piano V2 to me sounds more like the real bosendorfers I've heard on recordings. The nord's version is always kind of tinny sounding.
Re: V-Piano in ken's music room..
hope roland releases another update for my VPiano at NAMM2011. 
i dont really want new piano sounds, but i'd like to have some flexibility to play the other built-in tone generator to make some drum loops or something.
i dont really want new piano sounds, but i'd like to have some flexibility to play the other built-in tone generator to make some drum loops or something.
Re: V-Piano in ken's music room..
To kill time while waiting for the laundry I checked out the kawai site on their latest. Man their pianos and technology are dated... sonicly and feel, im not a fan of their acoustic pianos and neither their digital pianos. Their demos are like watching a suzuki car commercial.. not main stream at all... I guess their main customers are churches and non profit organizations or something. They should study wat the other manufacturers are doing and get with the times...especially their image.
Re: V-Piano in ken's music room..
hey, looks like the VPiano Grand is going to be available soon!
Re: V-Piano in ken's music room..
kenchan, have you heard anything specifically about an upgrade/update to vpiano- such as an evolution 2? i was hoping they'd keep working on the vintage 1 and 2 (particularly the 2, which i just don't get- too much phasing in the middle registers). but i wonder if they've been spending all their time on the v-grand, which i personally think is silly for the typical user of high-end music technology. i never "got" the avantgrand either. i know they have built in high quality speakers, but anyone with savvy and motivation can build out a sound system for much less money, and it also defeats the portability of the instrument....
I would say that since my last postings i have gotten much more comfortable with the VP. someone had made a post somewhere about detuning in the opposite direction - going to negative values instead of positive values. i have found that helpful- i think the extreme silver re-tuned to a -5 or -10 value sounds really bright and solid. i would have to say i'm spending 90% of my time using the silver pianos, i find the vintage 1 decays too quickly and doesn't have enough brilliance, and as i mentioned the Vintage 2 seems really artificial to me. but i'm getting much happier with the board overall. i still can't find a CP1 to play in Atlanta GA, and the C5's i've played have left me very unimpressed.
I would say that since my last postings i have gotten much more comfortable with the VP. someone had made a post somewhere about detuning in the opposite direction - going to negative values instead of positive values. i have found that helpful- i think the extreme silver re-tuned to a -5 or -10 value sounds really bright and solid. i would have to say i'm spending 90% of my time using the silver pianos, i find the vintage 1 decays too quickly and doesn't have enough brilliance, and as i mentioned the Vintage 2 seems really artificial to me. but i'm getting much happier with the board overall. i still can't find a CP1 to play in Atlanta GA, and the C5's i've played have left me very unimpressed.
Re: V-Piano in ken's music room..
hi boehnbr- i haven't read or heard anything on OS updates since evolution. i'd recommend you try different speakers too for your VPiano.
yah, basically if you detune with minus you get a richer sound, and brigher if you detune in positive.
CP1 and CP5 basically share the same tone generator, but it appears the CP5 does not have a pre-amp section to EQ the piano's in more detail. im very happy with how my CP1 sounds after tweaking it for some time.
i also spent an evening tweaking the steinway D sample on my nord. basically nord's samples are too bright and thin for me... i think they did this on purpose to cut through the mix in live situation. for me, i cut treble by -7dB and boosted the bass by 8dB. much richer sound. too bad though the stageEX offers no half pedal cause that's one thing i use a lot (release and catch) in my playing at times. going to use this with my FantomG8 setup soon along with the other Rhodes i tweaked quite a bit.
if i may add, might want to check out the Korg Kronos down the road. im planning on getting the 88 key version. it has a HUGE ROM for piano engine and does not loop! they sampled the entire ring of the piano + offers damper resonance, all the other noises as well. one thing i need to verify is how fluid their velocity layers are. from the presentations ive seen, the EP's are seamless like in my CP1 or RD700NX but not sure about the piano's. they offer both german and japanese piano's. would be a nice toy to have for music composition.
yah, basically if you detune with minus you get a richer sound, and brigher if you detune in positive.
CP1 and CP5 basically share the same tone generator, but it appears the CP5 does not have a pre-amp section to EQ the piano's in more detail. im very happy with how my CP1 sounds after tweaking it for some time.
i also spent an evening tweaking the steinway D sample on my nord. basically nord's samples are too bright and thin for me... i think they did this on purpose to cut through the mix in live situation. for me, i cut treble by -7dB and boosted the bass by 8dB. much richer sound. too bad though the stageEX offers no half pedal cause that's one thing i use a lot (release and catch) in my playing at times. going to use this with my FantomG8 setup soon along with the other Rhodes i tweaked quite a bit.
if i may add, might want to check out the Korg Kronos down the road. im planning on getting the 88 key version. it has a HUGE ROM for piano engine and does not loop! they sampled the entire ring of the piano + offers damper resonance, all the other noises as well.
one thing i need to verify is how fluid their velocity layers are. from the presentations ive seen, the EP's are seamless like in my CP1 or RD700NX but not sure about the piano's. they offer both german and japanese piano's. would be a nice toy to have for music composition. 
Re: V-Piano in ken's music room..
Hi Kenchen!
Thanks for the blog man. It has helped us understand the differences between the CP1 and VP.
There was a review posted about the two boards (http://magazine.dv247.com/2010/04/22/ro ... ew-part-3/) and the end result was that they liked the CP1 for stage work, but if you wanted accuracy the VP won out if you had the time to tweak it. You have had both now for a while and would you agree with the assessment?
If the CP1 board was used for stage work would you or anyone else hear the sample loops? Playing live distracts everyone usually, even the performer and sample loops may not be a factor.
My wife and I both play and we are in the market for two boards and maybe even the VP Grand (Really - all three). So the sky is the limit right now and we want to get the right boards for the right jobs. We will be playing in a quartet; with piano, that plays at weddings and will need two pianos in separate rooms to play/practice with. We have a spare bedroom for one, a dining room for a grand of some kind, and a studio for recording. So we really could use three pianos.
What's your thoughts dude? Thanks in advance for replying and keep the blogs coming!
Thanks for the blog man. It has helped us understand the differences between the CP1 and VP.
There was a review posted about the two boards (http://magazine.dv247.com/2010/04/22/ro ... ew-part-3/) and the end result was that they liked the CP1 for stage work, but if you wanted accuracy the VP won out if you had the time to tweak it. You have had both now for a while and would you agree with the assessment?
If the CP1 board was used for stage work would you or anyone else hear the sample loops? Playing live distracts everyone usually, even the performer and sample loops may not be a factor.
My wife and I both play and we are in the market for two boards and maybe even the VP Grand (Really - all three). So the sky is the limit right now and we want to get the right boards for the right jobs. We will be playing in a quartet; with piano, that plays at weddings and will need two pianos in separate rooms to play/practice with. We have a spare bedroom for one, a dining room for a grand of some kind, and a studio for recording. So we really could use three pianos.
What's your thoughts dude? Thanks in advance for replying and keep the blogs coming!
Re: V-Piano in ken's music room..
the loop is only obvious to me because i edit patches all the time and it's one of the things i try to mask in any sample that requires a long decay. for the regular player or audience they will not hear it because they wont know what to listen for. :) on my CP1 i programmed the sounds to very well mask the lifeless loop so it's no longer an issue for me.
the CP1 is a great stage piano. i love it. it plays very well and accurately. the EP's are especially very nice and has a lot of character. the main downside is if you dont like the lighter keybed of the CP1. it's not very piano-like feel, more like a electric piano or a glorifed hammer action synth... even my FantomG8 feels more like a piano (PHA2) than the CP1.
im a keyboardist so im fine with it and learned to like the CP1's keybed, but if you're a pianist i highly recommend the VPiano over the CP1 because of the realism in the dynamic response and touch. my wife plays classical piano and she can not come to terms with the CP1's keybed.
another great choice to look for is the RD700NX. very nice rich sound and the keybed is the same as the VPiano (PHA3 with escapement). but i did have issues with the demo's i played locally. one was the note drop outs at max polyphony and also werd release when i play big choppy short chords over mp3 files. it's like a latency problem or something.
as far as the VPGrand, i think roland really nailed the sound. hearing the demo's from the winter 2011 it seems they did a lot of research on the box and how to make the sound richer. given the nice housing that it comes in i'd prefer to get that over the regular VPiano but hey, i already had my VP since 2yrs ago so im okay. hahaha.
the CP1 is a great stage piano. i love it. it plays very well and accurately. the EP's are especially very nice and has a lot of character. the main downside is if you dont like the lighter keybed of the CP1. it's not very piano-like feel, more like a electric piano or a glorifed hammer action synth... even my FantomG8 feels more like a piano (PHA2) than the CP1.
im a keyboardist so im fine with it and learned to like the CP1's keybed, but if you're a pianist i highly recommend the VPiano over the CP1 because of the realism in the dynamic response and touch. my wife plays classical piano and she can not come to terms with the CP1's keybed.
another great choice to look for is the RD700NX. very nice rich sound and the keybed is the same as the VPiano (PHA3 with escapement). but i did have issues with the demo's i played locally. one was the note drop outs at max polyphony and also werd release when i play big choppy short chords over mp3 files. it's like a latency problem or something.
as far as the VPGrand, i think roland really nailed the sound. hearing the demo's from the winter 2011 it seems they did a lot of research on the box and how to make the sound richer. given the nice housing that it comes in i'd prefer to get that over the regular VPiano but hey, i already had my VP since 2yrs ago so im okay. hahaha.